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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd)</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd)</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "Quzah" <<A HREF="mailto:quzah#hotmail,com">quzah#hotmail,com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 16:27:41 -0800</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
From: Scatter <scatter#thevortex,com>
> "Quzah" <quzah#hotmail,com> wrote:
> > From: Scatter <scatter#thevortex,com>
> > "Below lies a den of fierce lions. You doubt you could survive."
> > The command: "down"
> > The result: DeathTrap. Lions ripped me to shreads. I was pissed.
> > The reason: I like to explore. If there is a room, I'll go there.
>
> A wise explorer might have invested in lion-repellant first? Nothing
> personal, but my response to a complaint about this would be along
> the lines of "given the dire warning, what precautions did you take?
> None? Well, duh!"
A) They didn't have lion repellant.
B) They didn't even have actual mobs in the room. Bam, deal X damage
to whoever enters.
C) It was in an area where nothing could really harm me, thus the
threat of dying instantaniously never crossed my mind. Especially
since it was for all practical purposes, a standard DIKU based
MUD.
> > That was my first encounter with a "Death Trap". Simply put, I hate
> > them. I am an explorer. I go places. Every place. Are their some
> > occasions where they are appropriate? Sure. Once you have set the
> > ground rules for the game. In my given situation, the death trap
> > was "unfair". Why? Let's face it, we're talking typical CircleMUD
> > here (at the time it was anyway), you die, it is no big deal. You
> > walk out and get your stuff back.
> >
> > A death trap steals that away from you. You can't get your stuff
> > back when any time you enter the room you insta-die. That is in
> > the given world "unfair".
>
> But in this case, you get a dire warning that if you go down there
> you will die. What gives you the expectation that you should be able
> to come back as a shiny new freshly reincarnated naked person and
> go down there to get your stuff without being killed?
>
> I'd agree with you but for the warning.
Except for the fact that muds with stock areas often have rooms
which say "oooh, big and scary, you are sure to die here" and you
can kill the level 5 warrior in the blink of an eye because you
are 30th level...
> > > about what kind of things are likely to happen. I would try to
> > > place hints that a given area may be dangerous. I.e. not warning
> > > the player that a group of bandits are lying in wait on a specific
> > > road, but perhaps npc rumours that bandits are known to be in
> > > the area.
> > Which just serves to antagonize the would be hero.
>
> How do you mean, antagonize?
More like tease. The would be hero, feeling high and mighty
charges out to pound on some sissy bandits (who then beat his
ass)... What I am saying that more often than not, if your NPCs
sit around and spread rumors of danger and mystery, it only will
serve to lure the PC out to their doom, rather than keep them
away from the area. Or, if they are overly cautious, they will
wait forever to go out there and it will be far to easy once they
do go there.
I'm not saying they're something to avoid, just that there is
the potential for them working in the opposite way you intend.
> Depends what you mean by 'work'. They won't always prevent a player
> going somewhere too risky for them, but I don't see that as their
> purpose. Their purpose is to warn, not to prevent.
>
> > The worst case scenario you end up with is the
> > player saying: "Well I'm the hero, I'm SUPPOSED to go there!"
>
> If there are bandits there, chances are that they are there because
> sooner or later a player hero is supposed to go there and clear
> them out - or join them, or whatever.
So in effect they are more of a plot enhancer/story lead rather
than a true to life warning. (Which was the whole point of the
thread if I recall correctly--unfairness versus ample warning.)
> > > Surely if a battle royal was going on, the newbie should be able
> > > to hear the sounds of battle before arriving in the middle of it?
> > > This, to me, is sufficient warning!
> > Nope. Consider the following:
> > : Welcome to SomeDamnMUD, enter your name:
> > : quzah
> > : Welcome Quzah, enter your password:
> > : *******
> > : MOTD
> > : Room description...
> > : <Massive melee ensues, slaughtering newbie>
> > : You have DIED!
>
> This is an interesting possibility. Perhaps the login system should
> behave a little more intelligently and, for example, allow the player
> to view the location he's about to appear in before entering. Or,
> choose a safer nearby location. If you only permit logging out in
> specific locations, this is a non-problem also.
>
> --
> Scatter ///\oo/\\\
Nod. I've thought of this before. Place the player in the room with
more or less a "ghost" mode until they type "ready", at which point
they'll be in "real" mode. In "ghost" they can (or not) be seen and
can use limited commands (such as look, who, inventory, etc) so that
they are not totally caught unaware.
This would have a few draw backs though:
1) I sit in ghost mode until the room has been cleared.
2) If I can't be seen, I can sit and spy on people.
Perhaps a few more, I just haven't sat around and thought out
all of the possibilities of it yet.
Quzah.
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00678" HREF="msg00678.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd)</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Scatter <scatter@thevortex.com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd)</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00681" HREF="msg00681.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd)</A></strong>,
Scatter <a href="mailto:scatter@thevortex.com">scatter@thevortex.com</a>, Sat 18 Dec 1999, 23:50 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00685" HREF="msg00685.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd)</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw@kanga.nu">claw@kanga.nu</a>, Sun 19 Dec 1999, 01:16 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00678" HREF="msg00678.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd)</A></strong>,
Scatter <a href="mailto:scatter@thevortex.com">scatter@thevortex.com</a>, Sat 18 Dec 1999, 23:50 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00682" HREF="msg00682.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd)</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw@kanga.nu">claw@kanga.nu</a>, Sun 19 Dec 1999, 00:34 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00684" HREF="msg00684.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd)</A></strong>,
Quzah <a href="mailto:quzah@hotmail.com">quzah@hotmail.com</a>, Sun 19 Dec 1999, 00:49 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00725" HREF="msg00725.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd)</A></strong>,
Scatter <a href="mailto:scatter@thevortex.com">scatter@thevortex.com</a>, Wed 22 Dec 1999, 20:56 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00729" HREF="msg00729.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd)</A></strong>,
Scatter <a href="mailto:scatter@thevortex.com">scatter@thevortex.com</a>, Wed 22 Dec 1999, 21:32 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00496" HREF="msg00496.html">[MUD-Dev] authority and human nature</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo@best.com">diablo@best.com</a>, Wed 24 Nov 1999, 22:10 GMT
<UL>
<li><Possible follow-up(s)><br>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00499" HREF="msg00499.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] authority and human nature</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster@origin.ea.com">rkoster@origin.ea.com</a>, Wed 24 Nov 1999, 22:30 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
</ul>
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