<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] ColdStore --> <!--X-From-R13: Qlaor eh Fnera <plaorNzhd.bet> --> <!--X-Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 13:48:05 -0800 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 199912082146.PAA12997@laurel.actlab.utexas.edu --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] ColdStore</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:cynbe@muq.org"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00551.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00553.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00546.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00562.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00552">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00552">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00552">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] ColdStore</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] ColdStore</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Cynbe ru Taren <<A HREF="mailto:cynbe#muq,org">cynbe#muq,org</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:46:51 -0600</LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu">mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> Miroslav Silovic <silovic#zesoi,fer.hr> wrote: | J C Lawrence <claw#kanga,nu> writes: | > ColdStore is a gigabyte-scale persistent object store ... | | Ok, I did more extensive research into this (mostly because I know the | authors). Thank you for a very informative post! I've been watching ColdStore out of the corner of my eye without having had time to take a serious look at it. I'm particularly interested because I'm planning on converting Muq to using mmap() next year. Your comments suggest that perhaps I should retain the ability to run non-mmap()ed when I do. | With mmap, you're limited to the largest contiguous segment in | your address space, which really is about 1 gb on most OSes. Did you mean "most 32-bit OSes"? I don't mean to carp, but outside of Intel x86 boxes, 32-bits seems basically dead, and I'd presumed that the 64-bit world was roomier than this? | - bug recovery is nonexistent. If your broken C++ code hits mmaped | memory, you can say goodbye to the entire db. You obviously have alternatives in mind, but they aren't clear to me. I'd guess broken C++ code hitting memory could in principle trash any db, but you see the risks as several orders of magnitude greater when the entire db is memory-mapped, vs just a cache of it? Or do you have solutions in mind for doing bug recovery well in mmap()ed implementations, which ColdStore merely isn't implementing? | - db format is highly non-portable. It's not just architecture | dependant, it's C++ compiler dependant (as object layout may change). Is the db format COFF? Or what was the relationship to COFF? Or am I misunderstanding completely some of the ColdStore-related traffic I vaguely remember? | BTW, has there been any discussion on the list on incremental/generational | GC? (that works best for MUDs by far, IMHO - you can really bump up your | realtime response once you implement incrementality properly). You sound knowledgable: I'd be interested to hear you comment further. In Muq, I'm currently using a plain-jane mark-and-sweep monolithic gc I hacked together one weekend just to have something rather than nothing. I've been contemplating going to a two-generation system and/or implementing Dijkstra's three-color incremental algorithm. (I believe Muq's architecture, based on soft pointers indirected through in essence a software MMU, should make Dijkstra's algorithm particularly easy to implement.) Is there prior mud art with other approaches? Are there working systems or good references I should be boning up on before proceeding? Once again, thanks for taking time to make a very informative post! Cynbe _______________________________________________ MUD-Dev maillist - MUD-Dev#kanga,nu <A HREF="http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev">http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev</A> </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00562" HREF="msg00562.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] ColdStore</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Miroslav Silovic <silovic@zesoi.fer.hr></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00551.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd)</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00553.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd)</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00546.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] ColdStore</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00562.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] ColdStore</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00552"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00552"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] New AI Engine released</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00576" HREF="msg00576.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] New AI Engine released</A></strong>, Elysium <a href="mailto:tear@ministryofsound.net">tear@ministryofsound.net</a>, Fri 10 Dec 1999, 02:32 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00566" HREF="msg00566.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] New AI Engine released</A></strong>, Bruce Mitchener, Jr. <a href="mailto:bruce@puremagic.com">bruce@puremagic.com</a>, Thu 09 Dec 1999, 17:05 GMT </LI> </ul> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00545" HREF="msg00545.html">[MUD-Dev] ColdStore</A></strong>, J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw@kanga.nu">claw@kanga.nu</a>, Wed 08 Dec 1999, 19:30 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00546" HREF="msg00546.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] ColdStore</A></strong>, Miroslav Silovic <a href="mailto:silovic@zesoi.fer.hr">silovic@zesoi.fer.hr</a>, Wed 08 Dec 1999, 20:28 GMT </LI> </UL> <UL> <li><Possible follow-up(s)><br> <LI><strong><A NAME="00552" HREF="msg00552.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] ColdStore</A></strong>, Cynbe ru Taren <a href="mailto:cynbe@muq.org">cynbe@muq.org</a>, Wed 08 Dec 1999, 21:48 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00562" HREF="msg00562.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] ColdStore</A></strong>, Miroslav Silovic <a href="mailto:silovic@zesoi.fer.hr">silovic@zesoi.fer.hr</a>, Thu 09 Dec 1999, 12:07 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00563" HREF="msg00563.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] ColdStore</A></strong>, J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw@kanga.nu">claw@kanga.nu</a>, Thu 09 Dec 1999, 12:43 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00543" HREF="msg00543.html">[MUD-Dev] Scenarios</A></strong>, Chris Lloyd <a href="mailto:crl199@soton.ac.uk">crl199@soton.ac.uk</a>, Tue 07 Dec 1999, 23:54 GMT <LI><strong><A NAME="00526" HREF="msg00526.html">[MUD-Dev] New member</A></strong>, IronWolf <a href="mailto:ironwolf@ewa.net">ironwolf@ewa.net</a>, Mon 06 Dec 1999, 06:10 GMT </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>