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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "Brandon J. Rickman" <<A HREF="mailto:ashes#pc4,zennet.com">ashes#pc4,zennet.com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 20:26:56 -0700 (PDT)</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
On Fri, 25 Sep 1998 Michael.Willey#abnamro,com wrote:
> ____________________Reply Separator____________________
> Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft
> Author: mud-dev#kanga,nu ("Brandon J. Rickman"
> <ashes#pc4,zennet.com>)
> Date: 9/25/98 3:29 AM
> >Is that a design problem, the magic numbers are too
> >low? (Assume that the magic numbers have been correctly
> >coded as user configurable constants.) No, someone
> >just needs to raise the numbers, tune the code.
> >The older and popular codebases suck because they can't
> >be tuned, they are badly designed.
>
> Even with tuning of the magic numbers many systems still
> suffer design flaws. Take for instance the commonly
> seen percentile skill system. Each skill is rated on a
> linear scale of 1 to 100, and when an ability is rated
> at 100 it can never be higher. Joe Player can raise
> his skills to the same levels as the gods. He can be
> perfect. Raising the magic number to 200 or even 2000
> slows the process down but doesn't eliminate the underlying
> problem.
I like how percentage systems tend to go up to 200%. Sometimes this is
done to give more room for things like critical hits, where a crit is a
d100 roll that is under 10% of the skill score, or whatever. The numbers
keep going up because the players keep getting better, combat becomes
deadlier. Since there isn't anything else to do other than compete, the
values keep spiraling up to unimaginable ranges. If only the players
wanted to do something besides max out their stats...
> So I'm trying to develop a game system along completely
> different assumptions. Allowing characters to begin
> with professional level skills, assuming that players
> may spend 8 or more hours a day for years advancing
> these abilities, and trying to take the focus away from
> the whole "leveling" concept, as starters.
I'm late in replying to all the replies this generated. Skill levels tend
to even out no matter where you start them - a high starting skill in X is
still a starting value. A newbie is still a newbie. Unless you are
really serious about it, and new characters really _can_ kill mold without
ten visits to a healer.
> >because the small values aren't, er, small enough. The
> >max limit is still within a "usable" range, it is a high-
> >traffic number.
>
> I agree with you, but don't see any simple solutions to
> the problem. The number of units between 0 and Maximum
> can be increased forever, but you can't do much to increase
> the number of units between 0 and 1. The best that you
> can do is decide carefully what constitutes 1 unit.
Yes. And you can always try to simulate some real-world values: 1 hit
point is the damage done by a bee sting, therefore a cat's scratch it 2
hit points. Oh, plus special damage types for heat, cold, disease...
Or you could just give everyone 10 hit points and ignore all that trivial
damage.
> >Anyway, I lose interest in a game if the only goal is
> >to max out my skills. Shouldn't there be fun things to
> >do after I have I a buff character?
>
> I agree. For me, character advancement is a means to an
> end, not an end in itself. I want a world that's fun to
> explore and interact with. I want the game system to be
> complex and challenging, but not the only goal of the game.
> That's why the DS2 design team's unofficial motto is
> "By Spades, For Spades". That, or "No Cheese". ;)
You have something against cheese?
- Brandon
ashes#zennet,com
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="01223" HREF="msg01223.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Michael.Willey#abnamro,com</LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01220" HREF="msg01220.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
Michael.Willey <a href="mailto:Michael.Willey#abnamro,com">Michael.Willey#abnamro,com</a>, Fri 25 Sep 1998, 14:57 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01350" HREF="msg01350.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
Jon Leonard <a href="mailto:jleonard#divcom,slimy.com">jleonard#divcom,slimy.com</a>, Tue 29 Sep 1998, 06:10 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01222" HREF="msg01222.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
Michael.Willey <a href="mailto:Michael.Willey#abnamro,com">Michael.Willey#abnamro,com</a>, Fri 25 Sep 1998, 15:14 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01223" HREF="msg01223.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
Michael.Willey <a href="mailto:Michael.Willey#abnamro,com">Michael.Willey#abnamro,com</a>, Fri 25 Sep 1998, 16:06 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01328" HREF="msg01328.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
Brandon J. Rickman <a href="mailto:ashes#pc4,zennet.com">ashes#pc4,zennet.com</a>, Mon 28 Sep 1998, 03:27 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01224" HREF="msg01224.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
S. Patrick Gallaty <a href="mailto:choke#sirius,com">choke#sirius,com</a>, Fri 25 Sep 1998, 17:55 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01227" HREF="msg01227.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
Adam J. Thornton <a href="mailto:adam#phoenix,Princeton.EDU">adam#phoenix,Princeton.EDU</a>, Fri 25 Sep 1998, 18:53 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01229" HREF="msg01229.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
Andy Cink <a href="mailto:ranthor#earthlink,net">ranthor#earthlink,net</a>, Fri 25 Sep 1998, 19:30 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01258" HREF="msg01258.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: let's call it a spellcraft</A></strong>,
quzah [sotfhome] <a href="mailto:quzah#softhome,net">quzah#softhome,net</a>, Sat 26 Sep 1998, 06:24 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
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