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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Andy Cink <<A HREF="mailto:ranthor#earthlink,net">ranthor#earthlink,net</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 19:56:09 -0700</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
At 04:24 PM 9/22/98 -0500, Raph Koster wrote:
>So I got into a discussion on Usenet with a fellow named Jag about
>whether or not Diablo was a mud. It started out because he wanted to
>know if there was any difference between the following terms:
>
>mud
>persistent world (PWOG)
>massively multiplayer online rpg (MMORPG)
>online rpg (ORPG)
>online game
>
>The point made by Jag was that rebooting a Diku and starting a new game
>of Diablo isn't really very different. Yet in my gut, I still think that
>Diablo is not a mud, and a Diku is.
In my mind, there is one thing that would make something like
a diku a mud, whereas a game like Diablo is not (in my mind,
anyways) a mud. And that is permanency. I don't mean permanent
towns, or permanent characters, but a permanent location that
persists even when nobody is present.
Entering a game of diablo is like entering a holodeck
ala Star Trek. When you enter, it makes an environment
for you. When you leave, it disappears. When you log
off a mud, it does not disappear, but awaits your
return. Things may change while you're gone, other
players may change the world while you sleep. Other NPC
characters may also change the world while you sleep.
The fact that a mud world continues to revolve even when
no players are present is what matters to me.
It is my personal belief, that for any mud to succeed it
*must* have a social environment of some kind. For Diablo,
this may well be the chat room like environment outside of
the game itself. But for a mud to succeed, it must have
players, and those players must interact. When a game
like Diablo can only have 4 players at a time, and
those players must always look for games created to
see other players, it just doesn't have the strength
that a mud has for supporting socialization. The mud
always persists and offers a stronger foundation than
a game like Diablo.
Because a game of Diablo is only temporary, when you try
to enter, it may not be there. You can't just telnet in
and check things out. Each time the world is different,
and may or may not be there when you get back. Diablo also
has a very tiny environment, only a city with one dungeon.
On any mud I've seen that is even halfheartedly respectable,
that would be considered a pittance.
>Am I nuts? And if I am not nuts, is there a specific chain of logic that
>shows it? ;)
You're not nuts, but I don't know if my chain of "logic" sheds
any light either :P
Andy
------------------------------------------------------
EARTH FIRST! We'll stripmine the other planets later.
Head Coder for Renegade Knights MUD
Ranthor#earthlink,net
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<li><strong><A NAME="01145" HREF="msg01145.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Richard Woolcock <KaVir#dial,pipex.com></li></ul>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="01094" HREF="msg01094.html">[MUD-Dev] Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "Koster, Raph" <rkoster#origin,ea.com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01098" HREF="msg01098.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?</A></strong>,
Marc Hernandez <a href="mailto:marc#jb,com">marc#jb,com</a>, Tue 22 Sep 1998, 21:51 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01104" HREF="msg01104.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Tue 22 Sep 1998, 22:39 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01111" HREF="msg01111.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?</A></strong>,
Ryan Prince <a href="mailto:jynx_ryn#mindless,com">jynx_ryn#mindless,com</a>, Wed 23 Sep 1998, 00:16 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01157" HREF="msg01157.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Wed 23 Sep 1998, 20:41 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01118" HREF="msg01118.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?</A></strong>,
Andy Cink <a href="mailto:ranthor#earthlink,net">ranthor#earthlink,net</a>, Wed 23 Sep 1998, 03:01 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01145" HREF="msg01145.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?</A></strong>,
Richard Woolcock <a href="mailto:KaVir#dial,pipex.com">KaVir#dial,pipex.com</a>, Wed 23 Sep 1998, 17:49 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01180" HREF="msg01180.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Object transitions, was Re: Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?</A></strong>,
Vadim Tkachenko <a href="mailto:vt#freehold,crocodile.org">vt#freehold,crocodile.org</a>, Thu 24 Sep 1998, 05:42 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01123" HREF="msg01123.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?</A></strong>,
Hal Black <a href="mailto:hal#moos,ml.org">hal#moos,ml.org</a>, Wed 23 Sep 1998, 04:33 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01178" HREF="msg01178.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Ugh, IS Diablo a mud?</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Thu 24 Sep 1998, 05:23 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
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