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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: "'<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>'" <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Marian Griffith <<A HREF="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 20:05:37 +0100 (BST)</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
In <URL:<A HREF="news:local.muddev">news:local.muddev</A>> on Sun 27 Sep, Koster, Raph wrote:
> > From: Caliban Tiresias Darklock [<A HREF="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">mailto:caliban#darklock,com</A>]
> > On 05:28 PM 9/26/98 -0500, I personally witnessed Koster, Raph
> > jumping up to say:
> > >I've often seen it cited as a rule that room descriptions in
> > >muds should not impose feelings on the player or character.
> > >How do you feel about room descriptions like these? These are from an
> > >area I did for Legend which was never completed, themed around an
> > >idealized 1950s:
> > I think my first comment sums up my thoughts pretty well on this, I'll
> > expound later.
> Here's the thing: the area is written about an idealized 1950s from the
> point of view of a child. So the area does impose not just feelings, but
> a whole worldview on the character.
> > My guideline is that you may plant an image in the
> > character's mind, but you cannot tell him how to *feel* about it.
> > Active verbs are inappropriate in a description. "You feel" is
> > only appropriate for physical sensations,
> > and "You are" is only appropriate for descriptions of physical states.
> > "You feel a breeze" is fine, "You feel happy" is not. "You are
> > waist deep in mud" is fine, "You are afraid" is not.
> This is what I was getting at. This is indeed the accepted wisdom. And
> your vampire example is indeed a classic case (a technically impossible
> one within Legend's rules, as characters are technically all human, but
> that's beside the point).
Also, this accepted wisdom is only true if players (in general) are
roleplaying their characters in the privacy of their minds. I do not
think this is true in the majority of cases. Even on a roleplaying
game most of the time playes are going to only make their characters
react consistently to its personality and history and to the actions
of other players. Not many are going to critically examine the rooms
and descriptions as well.
I consider rooms in the same way as I look at stage props and decors
for theater plays. They serve to present the mood and look convin-
cing from a distant. Up close it does not matter if you can see it
is all glass jewelry and painted cardboard. A room on a mud must in
the same way first and foremost present the mood. If you manage to
do so without actually -telling- the player, then that is very good
indeed, but it is not the first requirement. Approaching the haunted
house the first task of the room (scenery) is to make absolutely su-
re that the player knows her character should be nervous, if not out
right frightened by the atmosphere surrounding the house, even if it
means telling so directly in the descriptions.
> What I was hoping to lead towards with the post was a discussion of ways
> in which muds help players experience things from a different
> perspective. Accepted wisdom says that players get to pick that
> perspective.
> Is accepted wisdom right? What about a mud whose entire point is to
> OBLIGE players to experience the world from a perspective they did not
> choose? This seems like a really interesting area to explore, and
> something that I think some muds here on the list are getting at with
> their alteration of room descriptions based on the character's traits.
Very true, though I have no idea how anybody is going to handle mood
changes properly.
[example snipped]
> Here's another point: if you are trying to immerse players in a
> narrative fiction, you generally have to impose feelings. After all,
> narrative cohesion depends on that. I've often said that fiction is
> largely about mind control of the reader.
If you really want to poke directly into the reader's mind, then use
first person narrative. Very hard to write but from a readers point
of view impossible to escape :) Also totally unsuitable for a combat
oriented game as all those 'I ...' sentences become very annoying in
a short time. Plus, if playes are already ticked off at the direct
mention of their character's mood in descriptions, then they are go-
ing to hit the rafters of the use of first person. Perhaps the fact
that the examples Raph Koster gave already went a long way om this
direction was one of the reasons why people responded quite strongly
to them?
> In the case of the above area samples, the idea was to magically change
> the player's character into a child when they entered the area. Does
> that make the descriptions more palatable to your criteria?
Marian
--
Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world,
out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of
my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again
will there be loneliness ...
Rolan Choosing Talia,
Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey
</PRE>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="01291" HREF="msg01291.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "Koster, Raph" <rkoster#origin,ea.com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD)</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01308" HREF="msg01308.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD)</A></strong>,
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</a>, Sun 27 Sep 1998, 17:51 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01329" HREF="msg01329.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD)</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#kanga,nu">claw#kanga,nu</a>, Mon 28 Sep 1998, 05:56 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01330" HREF="msg01330.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: After a long absense, a semi-return (and TFD)</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Mon 28 Sep 1998, 06:20 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01291" HREF="msg01291.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Sun 27 Sep 1998, 00:02 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01310" HREF="msg01310.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Sun 27 Sep 1998, 18:20 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
<UL>
<li><Possible follow-up(s)><br>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01298" HREF="msg01298.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></strong>,
apocalypse <a href="mailto:apocalypse#pipeline,com">apocalypse#pipeline,com</a>, Sun 27 Sep 1998, 07:48 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01303" HREF="msg01303.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></strong>,
Richard Woolcock <a href="mailto:KaVir#dial,pipex.com">KaVir#dial,pipex.com</a>, Sun 27 Sep 1998, 14:24 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01305" HREF="msg01305.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></strong>,
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</a>, Sun 27 Sep 1998, 16:49 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01307" HREF="msg01307.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Room descriptions</A></strong>,
Hal Black <a href="mailto:hal#moos,ml.org">hal#moos,ml.org</a>, Sun 27 Sep 1998, 16:58 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
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</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
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