<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun --> <!--X-From-R13: [vpunry.IvyyrlNnoanzeb.pbz --> <!--X-Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 07:03:21 -0700 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 86256673.004CB9A7.00#usmta03,itsc.na.abnamro.com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, [MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:Michael.Willey#abnamro,com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00904.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00906.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00763.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00906.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00905">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00905">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00905">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun </LI> <LI><em>From</em>: <A HREF="mailto:Michael.Willey#abnamro,com">Michael.Willey#abnamro,com</A></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:04:13 -0500</LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun Author: mud-dev#kanga,nu (J C Lawrence <claw#under,engr.sgi.com>) Date: 9/1/98 8:02 PM >On Fri, 24 Jul 1998 16:08:25 -0500 >Michael Willey<Michael.Willey#abnamro,com> wrote: > >> Theoretically, the point of a 'reputation system' is to >> simulate people acquiring a reputation from the news and >> rumors spread about their actions, right? It makes sense >> to track information regarding their actions somehow in >> order to simulate reactions from NPC characters, but why >> do players need that crutch? Unlike NPCs, they have the >> ability to listen to the rumor mill and make up their own >> opinions. > >There are two reasons: > > 1) Players are not connected 24/7 and so don't have available >the constant social feedback that defines a social context as >well as "the word on the street". Tracking and publishing >this sort of data doesn't solve this problem, but does lessen >aspects of it. That's only partially true - Joe Player is not connected 24/7, but, given a large enough playerbase, *players* are. The social feedback from the playerbase is not as omnipresent as in RL, but it does exist. Tracking and publishing *data* may increase it's effects, but creating *opinion* from data should be the job of the player, not the computer. This seems to me to be the primary failing of "reputation", "alignment", or other behavior tracking systems. >Earlier there was discussion of having descriptions and other >generated output run thru a filter based on the experience >line of the viewer. Thus descriptions would be tailored to >what the player character had experienced and seen, to the >level of some data being supressed and other data emphasized >due to the altered levels of importance that pertained to that >specific character (eg warriors would notice battle scars and >the states of weapons, tailors would notice the material used >in clothing and details of its repair, etc). >Thus each character would see something potentially different >from what any other character saw of the same item, ad this >in turn would be guaranteed different from what that character >saw of himself. Exactly! Consider Bubba and Buffy, the Duo-Bombers. They randomly kill people and destroy property to advance some political movement. By any conventional measure of morals, they're dangerous felons. If their identities are well-known, then their reputation will reflect that. But if Buffy checks the reputation of Bubba, why would she see him as dangerous? To her he's a hero struggling for 'the cause'. Boffo supports their movement, but thinks that bombings aren't the way to achieve their goals. In Boffo's view, they're merely misguided. Biff lost a family member to one of these bombs. He doesn't care about politics, but he thinks Bubba and Buffy are evil incarnate. I think, however, that the only filter complex enough to adequately process all these factors into an opinion exists inside a player's head. I would say that the solution lies in assisting that filter by providing it with better data, not in creating a new filter. </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00906" HREF="msg00906.html">[MUD-Dev] Equipment Fit</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Holly Sommer <hsommer#micro,ti.com></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00904.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Encryption of protocols, compression and lag...</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00906.html">[MUD-Dev] Equipment Fit</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00763.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00906.html">[MUD-Dev] Equipment Fit</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00905"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00905"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00413" HREF="msg00413.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>, quzah <a href="mailto:quzah#geocities,com">quzah#geocities,com</a>, Wed 29 Jul 1998, 04:31 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00737" HREF="msg00737.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>, Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:matt#mpc,dyn.ml.org">matt#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Sat 15 Aug 1998, 17:40 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00760" HREF="msg00760.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>, Damion Schubert <a href="mailto:zjiria#texas,net">zjiria#texas,net</a>, Tue 18 Aug 1998, 05:11 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00763" HREF="msg00763.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>, Damion Schubert <a href="mailto:zjiria#texas,net">zjiria#texas,net</a>, Tue 18 Aug 1998, 06:36 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00905" HREF="msg00905.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>, Michael.Willey <a href="mailto:Michael.Willey#abnamro,com">Michael.Willey#abnamro,com</a>, Wed 02 Sep 1998, 14:03 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00906" HREF="msg00906.html">[MUD-Dev] Equipment Fit</A></strong>, Holly Sommer <a href="mailto:hsommer#micro,ti.com">hsommer#micro,ti.com</a>, Wed 02 Sep 1998, 14:26 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00908" HREF="msg00908.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Equipment Fit</A></strong>, Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt <a href="mailto:hhs#cbs,dtu.dk">hhs#cbs,dtu.dk</a>, Wed 02 Sep 1998, 15:09 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00909" HREF="msg00909.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Equipment Fit</A></strong>, pomales <a href="mailto:pomales#caip,rutgers.edu">pomales#caip,rutgers.edu</a>, Wed 02 Sep 1998, 15:28 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00967" HREF="msg00967.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Equipment Fit</A></strong>, Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt <a href="mailto:hhs#cbs,dtu.dk">hhs#cbs,dtu.dk</a>, Sun 06 Sep 1998, 14:31 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>