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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers </LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: J C Lawrence <<A HREF="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:39:13 -0700</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
On Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:31:12 -0500
Koster, Raph <rkoster#origin,ea.com> wrote:
> If I had to state this and Dr Cat's Stamp Collector Problem, they'd
> be stated thus:
> Marian's Tailor Problem: Given an environment that supports violence
> between players, and given that it also supports a robust set of
> features for non-combat-oriented activity and advancement, is it
> possible to allow the peaceful player to have fun without being
> impinged upon by combat?
> Dr Cat' Stamp Collecting Problem: Given that we know there are a
> wide range of features that people find enjoyable in muds, and given
> that we know some of these features are in conflict, is it possible
> to have a successful mud that incorporates all of these features, or
> must the design choose not to include some of the features?
> Marian's problem is of course a subset of Dr Cat's broader
> problem. (And forgive me if I have misstated the core underpinnings
> of these two dilemmas, guys, and ascribed your names to issues you
> weren't raising, but the statements above seemed to be the central
> issues in your posts).
Another view takes them as the intersection of the degree of consent
control a player has over effects on his character, and the extent of
intersection of game goals and activities with those , or to expand:
1) To what extent can a player control what happens to his character
without employing in-game resources?
2) To what extent do game activities or goals affect other player's
characters without regard for their consent?
The two are sympathetic of course, but are not perfect reflections.
You can plot any world on game design on there and get some concept of
its design relation ot other worlds. The interesting bit is that the
value on either scale is meaningless unless and until it intersects
the other scale.
"How much can you control the world's effects on you?"
vs
"How much can the world impose effects on you?"
Unfortunately I don't see this as valuable in the gernal or player
case. It only seem useful as a tool and deliberate design
consideration in game designers toolbelts. It gives them another
cross check to ensure that they are designing the game that they think
they are designing, and provides a functionally specific measuring
stick to see the side-effects of their design decisions.
--
J C Lawrence Internet: claw#null,net
(Contractor) Internet: coder#ibm,net
---------(*) Internet: claw#under,engr.sgi.com
...Honourary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00766" HREF="msg00766.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "Koster, Raph" <rkoster#origin,ea.com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: Standard Mud Room Format?</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00788" HREF="msg00788.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Standard Mud Room Format?</A></strong>,
Matthew R. Sheahan <a href="mailto:chaos#crystal,palace.net">chaos#crystal,palace.net</a>, Thu 20 Aug 1998, 16:15 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00778" HREF="msg00778.html">[MUD-Dev] Thoughts on Marian's Tailor Problem</A></strong>,
s001gmu <a href="mailto:s001gmu#nova,wright.edu">s001gmu#nova,wright.edu</a>, Wed 19 Aug 1998, 20:49 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00770" HREF="msg00770.html">[MUD-Dev] Slightly-OT: RPG Mapping Tool</A></strong>,
Holly Sommer <a href="mailto:hsommer#micro,ti.com">hsommer#micro,ti.com</a>, Tue 18 Aug 1998, 17:44 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00766" HREF="msg00766.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Tue 18 Aug 1998, 15:33 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00791" HREF="msg00791.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Fri 21 Aug 1998, 00:39 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
<UL>
<li><Possible follow-up(s)><br>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00768" HREF="msg00768.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers</A></strong>,
S. Patrick Gallaty <a href="mailto:patrick#gric,com">patrick#gric,com</a>, Tue 18 Aug 1998, 17:17 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00769" HREF="msg00769.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers</A></strong>,
quzah <a href="mailto:quzah#geocities,com">quzah#geocities,com</a>, Tue 18 Aug 1998, 17:25 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00772" HREF="msg00772.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers</A></strong>,
James Wilson <a href="mailto:jwilson#rochester,rr.com">jwilson#rochester,rr.com</a>, Tue 18 Aug 1998, 23:20 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00774" HREF="msg00774.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: UBE/high: Re: FW: UBE/high: Re: W IRED: Kilers</A></strong>,
Damion Schubert <a href="mailto:zjiria#texas,net">zjiria#texas,net</a>, Wed 19 Aug 1998, 06:10 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
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