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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: Fun vs Realism [ Was: OT: Sid Meier ]</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: Fun vs Realism [ Was: OT: Sid Meier ]</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "Brandon J. Rickman" <<A HREF="mailto:ashes#pc4,zennet.com">ashes#pc4,zennet.com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 21:40:28 -0700 (PDT)</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
On Sun, 26 Jul 1998, Damion Schubert wrote:
> From: Brandon J. Rickman <ashes#pc4,zennet.com>
> >Some quick Might & Magic 6 bashing: the "AI" has barely progressed from
>
> Having worked with Jon van Canegham, I can tell you that this is
> part of his design philosophy. Sure, he could improve the AI, but to
> be honest, it's a lot more satisfying to kill a horde than finally slay a
> solitary troll. He's a big believer of 'Nothing (including realism)
> should get in the way of the fun.' Sound familiar? I think he believes
> that everyone, deep down, wants to be a powergamer- and that's
> really the most rewarding part of the CRPG experience.
Well there really are endless hordes of monsters in this one. What may be
lacking in this one is suspense: you know there are another ten monsters
behind every door. There are no moments like those creepy calms
in Daggerfall, when you jump because some monster has snuck up behind you.
I started a third party in MM6 last night, just to recapture the original
entertainment, and I'm even less inclined to continue than before.
Probably because I haven't come across a shred of plot in 40 hours of game
play.
> By comparison, I've played Unreal lately, and I can't stress how
> unsatisfying it is to never fight more than 2 monsters at a time.
> And sure, they all exhibit good AI, but in some cases, it's so good
> that the only way I could beat the level was to abuse holes in the AI.
> I felt like a cheat when I did that. When I killed 60 skeletons in
> M&M6 with one spell, I felt like a god.
AI can include more than making a game hard to beat. There was some
article about crocodiles I read recently, must have been something from
the archives I'll look up again... can't find it, will check later.
> While other companies work to reinvent the RPG experience, M&MVI stays
> true to it's form and provides an extension of the old CRPGs - Bards Tale 2,
> Might and Magic I, Ultima III, Wizardry. They did a bloody good job, and
> the
> game took ~120 hours of my life away. I'd never accuse it of being a ROLE-
> playing game, or a fantastic story, but gosh, it was fun.
It works perhaps better than television as a kind of pointless
stimulation, but one thing that concerns me is that there is little
attempt to make this game appeal to a more mature market. How about an
RPG with a range of skill levels, with a sense of narrative, and a
remappable keyboard? :)
> Does this have relevance for MUDs? I think it has a lot. On the other
> hand,
> about a third of the posts on this forum is dedicated to controlling
> powergamers, instead of indulging them. =)
I try to spend time powergaming so I can figure out what is appealing
about it and find a way to make that accessible to non-powergamers.
Powergamers are about the only group that _is_ indulged by the gaming
industry, with a lot of [shallow] justification.
(Perhaps they are the only ones who ever _will_ be interested in
these games. And perhaps that is why I started trying to make art
instead.)
- Brandon Rickman - ashes#zennet,com -
While I have never previously found a need for a .sig, this
may be considered one for the purposes of this list
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00364" HREF="msg00364.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Fun vs Realism [ Was: OT: Sid Meier ]</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "Damion Schubert" <zjiria#texas,net></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: Fun vs Realism [ Was: OT: Sid Meier ]</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00371" HREF="msg00371.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Fun vs Realism [ Was: OT: Sid Meier ]</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Mon 27 Jul 1998, 09:27 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00401" HREF="msg00401.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Fun vs Realism [ Was: OT: Sid Meier ]</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:adam#angel,com">adam#angel,com</a>, Tue 28 Jul 1998, 18:48 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00414" HREF="msg00414.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Fun vs Realism [ Was: OT: Sid Meier ]</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Wed 29 Jul 1998, 06:09 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00418" HREF="msg00418.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Fun vs Realism [ Was: OT: Sid Meier ]</A></strong>,
Adam J. Thornton <a href="mailto:adam#phoenix,Princeton.EDU">adam#phoenix,Princeton.EDU</a>, Wed 29 Jul 1998, 14:21 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00429" HREF="msg00429.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Fun vs Realism [ Was: OT: Sid Meier ]</A></strong>,
Brandon J. Rickman <a href="mailto:ashes#pc4,zennet.com">ashes#pc4,zennet.com</a>, Thu 30 Jul 1998, 04:43 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00902" HREF="msg00902.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Fun vs Realism [ Was: OT: Sid Meier ]</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Tue 01 Sep 1998, 21:02 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00365" HREF="msg00365.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Fun vs Realism [ Was: OT: Sid Meier ]</A></strong>,
Damion Schubert <a href="mailto:zjiria#texas,net">zjiria#texas,net</a>, Mon 27 Jul 1998, 03:44 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00381" HREF="msg00381.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Fun vs Realism [ Was: OT: Sid Meier ]</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Tue 28 Jul 1998, 02:04 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00410" HREF="msg00410.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Fun vs Realism [ Was: OT: Sid Meier ]</A></strong>,
Damion Schubert <a href="mailto:zjiria#texas,net">zjiria#texas,net</a>, Wed 29 Jul 1998, 03:06 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
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