<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun --> <!--X-From-R13: "Ybfgre, Dncu" <exbfgreNbevtva.rn.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 12:40:09 -0700 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 11A17AA2B9EAD111BCEA00A0C9B417932EE9CA#forest,origin.ea.com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, [MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00033.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00035.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00245.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00040.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00034">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00034">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00034">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: "'<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>'" <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: "Koster, Raph" <<A HREF="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 14:37:18 -0500 </LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> > -----Original Message----- > From: Marian Griffith [SMTP:gryphon#iaehv,nl] > Sent: Monday, June 29, 1998 2:43 PM > To: 'mud-dev#kanga,nu' > Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun > > In <URL:<A HREF="news:local.muddev">news:local.muddev</A>> on Mon 29 Jun, Koster, Raph wrote: > > > If you are coding a system whereby nobody can strike another person > > *even in justifiable circumstances*, what sort of society have you > made, > > and what sort of ruler are you? > > Here we have a point worth of very serious discussion. And one where I > very much have to disagree with you. I do not belief that there can be > justifiable circumstances to strike at somebody else. At least not in > a game that attempts to provide a safe environment. > What about "keeping it safe"? > And I'm willing to > argue that the same is true in games like uol that do not attempt to > create a safe environment. However this is indicative on your view on > violence in games (a view that is shared by many current players). > I do want to make it clear that I am not a particularly huge fan of it as a player. As a player, I am a hardcore roleplayer who doesn't usually fight even NPCs and monsters--I spend most all my time interacting with other players in roleplay. I merely feel that we can't ignore the factor violence is. :( > Those who do not enjoy the > anarchistic principles of current muds could accept the limitation of > their personal freedom to prevent such events/crimes from occuring in > the first place. I know I would not mind. > Many people probably do not mind; certainly that is the classic trade-off: less freedoms for greater security. There is also the classic drawback: the people who take your freedoms and provide your security can then do quite a lot to you and you have surrendered enough freedom that you can't do anything about it. Of course, in a virtual context this problem is much less of an issue than in the real world. > > To get back to what you said, I think that a pure roleplay game of > large > > size will have to be a Stalinist setup, yes. And I don't LIKE it. > Then > > again, I think that MANY muds currently use such a restrictive > setup. > > Restrictive does not make it stalinist. Nor fascist. The game prevents > certain actions that would, if unchecked one way or the other, become > harmfull to the majority of the players. Player's freedom is not taken > away. Only certain actions that would otherwise be prevented in diffe- > rent ways (e.g. by player vigilante activities). > I think Mike S. explained pretty well what I meant here... > This is partly a problem because of the way power works in muds. The > only > power there is -is- that of the sword. > Not at all! As Dr Cat rightly points out, solutions such as ostracism are very powerful. Of course, given the fluidity of identity, ostracism is hard to implement. :( -Raph </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00071" HREF="msg00071.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> "Jon A. Lambert" <jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com></li></ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00047" HREF="msg00047.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Marian Griffith <gryphon#iaehv,nl></li></ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00040" HREF="msg00040.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> "Dr. Cat" <cat#bga,com></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00033.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00035.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00245.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00040.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00034"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00034"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00030" HREF="msg00030.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>, Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Thu 02 Jul 1998, 01:12 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00033" HREF="msg00033.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>, Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Thu 02 Jul 1998, 17:33 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00158" HREF="msg00158.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:adam#angel,com">adam#angel,com</a>, Sat 11 Jul 1998, 00:59 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00245" HREF="msg00245.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>, J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Sat 18 Jul 1998, 00:45 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00034" HREF="msg00034.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>, Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Thu 02 Jul 1998, 19:40 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00040" HREF="msg00040.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>, Dr. Cat <a href="mailto:cat#bga,com">cat#bga,com</a>, Fri 03 Jul 1998, 01:54 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00047" HREF="msg00047.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>, Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Fri 03 Jul 1998, 20:48 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00078" HREF="msg00078.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>, Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Wed 08 Jul 1998, 07:20 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00123" HREF="msg00123.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun</A></strong>, Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Thu 09 Jul 1998, 19:39 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>