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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: You think users won't number crunch and statis</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: You think users won't number crunch and statis</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "Jon A. Lambert" <<A HREF="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 01:45:36 -5</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
On 2 Jul 98, Travis S. Casey wrote:
>
[snip conversation about number hiding]]
>
> In doing that, hiding numbers isn't the only thing that I'd need to do.
> To take a typical, D&D-derived game system and hide the numbers wouldn't
> help in the suspension of disbelief; indeed, it would quite likely hurt
> it, or make the game nearly impossible to play. I'd need to try to set
> things up so that the game works as much as possible like the way you'd
> expect a real world to work -- so that you don't *need* the numbers as
> much as you do in a D&D-style world.
>
Exactly. Many P&P systems require players to have numbers readily
available for resolving actions. Automating the process of action
resolution make many of these numbers meaningless and unnecessary.
Typically the only numbers that require display are those involving
vital statistics and those involved with players considering there
chances at performing an activity. And these numbers can be
displayed in any number of ways; literally, textual description or
graphically.
Rolemaster, for instance, has a 6 or more page character sheet which
is largely a collection of numbers. In addition, there are dozens of
tables which need to be referenced in order to derive one's chances
at success at a given action. In short, all these numbers make the
game less playable from a ftf standpoint and their exposure would
be very counterproductive to online play. Intimate knowledge of
these numbers would of course be very helpful to GoPers. However, I
think only "Rainman" would be able to process this quantity of
information fast enough to gain significant advantage. Long term
experience may lead players to instinctively guess at odds. As
one who has attempted to min/max creation and play on occasion for
grins and giggles, I find that the many situational and exception
variables to numerous to get a firm handle on.
[snip]
> That depends on what your game is. For me, nothing would be up -- the
> GoPers who "broke" the system would know the internal rules and numbers,
> but, since I'm trying to make an accurate simulation, this won't help them
> much, if at all, and I don't really care if it does help them (as long as
> it doesn't give them a huge advantage). The real point of hiding the
> numbers was to help those who want to roleplay to do so, by eliminating
> the distraction of numbers. Short of forcing all the roleplayers to
> memorize the rules and numbers, the people who have "broken" the system
> can't prevent it from doing that... and thus, from my point of view, they
> haven't "broken" the system at all.
Aye. Role-players, per my definition, do not often spend a great
deal of time crunching numbers in order to gain mechanical advantage.
More often they are interested in making decisions based on "fuzzy",
but helpful, feedback from their gamemaster.
> Heck, if I were to set up such a system, I'd probably put the details of
> how it "really works" on the web myself, for those interested in it.
> There's nothing that stops hackers from trying to "crack" something better
> than the fact that the info's free for anyone to download.
For me, I would merely encourage and point the curious to purchasing
the material. With the caveat, that house rules will vary.
--
--/*\ Jon A. Lambert - TychoMUD Internet:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com /*\--
--/*\ Mud Server Developer's Page <<A HREF="http://www.netcom.com/~jlsysinc">http://www.netcom.com/~jlsysinc</A>> /*\--
--/*\ "Everything that deceives may be said to enchant" - Plato /*\--
</PRE>
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<li><strong><A NAME="00181" HREF="msg00181.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: You think users won't number crunch and statis</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Matt Chatterley <matt#mpc,dyn.ml.org></li></ul>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00019" HREF="msg00019.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD?</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> J C Lawrence <claw#under,engr.sgi.com></LI></UL></LI>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00038" HREF="msg00038.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD?</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "Travis S. Casey" <efindel#io,com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00019" HREF="msg00019.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD?</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Wed 01 Jul 1998, 21:54 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00038" HREF="msg00038.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD?</A></strong>,
Travis S. Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#io,com">efindel#io,com</a>, Thu 02 Jul 1998, 20:41 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00055" HREF="msg00055.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD?</A></strong>,
Vadim Tkachenko <a href="mailto:vt#freehold,crocodile.org">vt#freehold,crocodile.org</a>, Tue 07 Jul 1998, 02:43 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00165" HREF="msg00165.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: You think users won't number crunch and statistise your MUD?</A></strong>,
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</a>, Sat 11 Jul 1998, 17:38 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00103" HREF="msg00103.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: You think users won't number crunch and statis</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Thu 09 Jul 1998, 05:45 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00181" HREF="msg00181.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: You think users won't number crunch and statis</A></strong>,
Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:matt#mpc,dyn.ml.org">matt#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Sun 12 Jul 1998, 22:20 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00194" HREF="msg00194.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: You think users won't number crunch and statis</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:adam#angel,com">adam#angel,com</a>, Mon 13 Jul 1998, 20:14 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00197" HREF="msg00197.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: You think users won't number crunch and statis</A></strong>,
Dan Shiovitz <a href="mailto:dbs#cs,wisc.edu">dbs#cs,wisc.edu</a>, Mon 13 Jul 1998, 21:46 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00198" HREF="msg00198.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: You think users won't number crunch and statis</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:adam#angel,com">adam#angel,com</a>, Mon 13 Jul 1998, 23:16 GMT
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