<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 -->
<!--X-Subject: RE: [MUD-Dev] Quests -->
<!--X-From-R13: "Zrr Euryqba" <yvarneabNtgr.arg> -->
<!--X-Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 11:11:56 -0700 -->
<!--X-Message-Id: 000301bfac6b$22b61660$17822104#dsl,gtei.net -->
<!--X-Content-Type: text/plain -->
<!--X-Reference: 20000418012059.73545.qmail#hotmail,com -->
<!--X-Head-End-->
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>MUD-Dev message, RE: [MUD-Dev] Quests</title>
<!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" -->
<link rev="made" href="mailto:linearno#gte,net">
</head>
<body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff"
text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000">
<font size="+4" color="#804040">
<strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong>
</font>
<br>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
<br clear=all><hr>
<!--X-Body-Begin-->
<!--X-User-Header-->
<!--X-User-Header-End-->
<!--X-TopPNI-->
Date:
[ <a href="msg00519.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg00520.html">Next</a>
]
Thread:
[ <a href="msg00419.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg00349.html">Next</a>
]
Index:
[ <A HREF="author.html#00525">Author</A>
| <A HREF="#00525">Date</A>
| <A HREF="thread.html#00525">Thread</A>
]
<!--X-TopPNI-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-->
<!--X-Subject-Header-Begin-->
<H1>RE: [MUD-Dev] Quests</H1>
<HR>
<!--X-Subject-Header-End-->
<!--X-Head-of-Message-->
<UL>
<LI><em>To</em>: <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: RE: [MUD-Dev] Quests</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "Lee Sheldon" <<A HREF="mailto:linearno#gte,net">linearno#gte,net</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 10:57:52 -0400</LI>
<LI><em>Importance</em>: Normal</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu">mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu</A></LI>
</UL>
<!--X-Head-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin-->
<HR>
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End-->
<!--X-Body-of-Message-->
<PRE>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu
> [<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu]On">mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu]On</A> Behalf Of
> Madrona Tree
> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 9:34 PM
> To: mud-dev#kanga,nu
> Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Quests
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Raph Koster" <rkoster#austin,rr.com>
> >To: <mud-dev#kanga,nu>
> >Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 10:58 PM
> >Subject: RE: [MUD-Dev] Quests
> > The other problems are farsighted questions of logistics that
> > presuppose the ability to carry it off even once. :) Let's cross
> > that bridge when we get to it!
>
> Oh, but people have already gotten to it... and the bridge
> hasn't been (or
> wasn't, in a few particular cases in my mind, anyhow) crossed
> very well. A
> badly carried off quest is worse than no quest at all. The
> logistics, i
> believe, are as important as the quest itself.
PMJI.
And thanks to Raph, Matt and Brian for encouraging me to join this list.
I've been catching up on threads the past couple of days, but I'm ready to
jump in with both feet.
I think it's absolutely essential that we realize that there are many skill
sets involved in creating one of these worlds. We have no problem it seems
understanding that being a great programmer doesn't making you a great
animator, or being a great composer doesn't make you able to write a line of
workable code. Yet when faced with writing, because it requires little
manual dexterity, and it's rules are apparently not cast in stone, and
almost everyone can put sentences together in a fairly comprehensible order,
it seems many assume that writing is a task that can be undertaken by just
about anyone. There is no craft, or rules to be learned, or that they can
be easily assimilated by reading a book, or taking a class.
In fact many of the stumbling blocks we face in creating quests and stories
for our worlds have been overcome for a long, long time by people who make
their living entertaining with the words they've applied to paper. I'm
sorry, Raph, but I agree with Madrona one hundred percent. The logistics
issue must be addressed. And time and resources must be applied from the
very beginning, or the quests will simply end up being UPS yet again.
People are forever telling me that sophisticated stories and quests that
actually touch emotional chords in people are simply too hard to churn out
on a regular basis. (If only we could get to the first one that actually
did this!) Or that there isn't enough development time! This one really
irks me. If the team is properly assembled, you have in place enough
artists (hopefully) to visually create the world, enough programmers
(hopefully) to breath life into it, why not enough writers (hopefully) to
integrate the quests and stories?
(We can get into the other debate of whether or not stories are a good thing
to provide players at all. But if, as this thread seems to indicate, we
might WANT to have them, then we can't get bogged down - or shrug off-
logistics.)
And last is the concern that storytelling on this scale can't be sustained
over the (hopefully) long period of time a persistent world will exist.
Would it surprise you to learn that when I was the Head Writer on Edge of
Night I wrote 500 pages a month? That I wrote material in week one that was
videotaped in week two and aired in week three? And I did this for an
all-devouring monster that required a sacrifice of words 5 days a week, 52
weeks a year, to keep it appeased. And I am not unique. Edge isn't the
only soap opera ever created. I only did it for two years. Some writers do
it their entire careers (They end up burnt-out husks, but that's another
story). Then there's nighttime. Any nighttime TV series takes months of
writing during the pre-production period. And that writing isn't done by
the Key Grip because he took writing in college. It is done by
professionals who make their living entertaining people. AND SOMETIMES Key
Grips who took writing in college, and show some understanding, whom they
train.
> > Your audience never appreciates your efforts. Not as a whole.
> > They also have very short memories.
>
> Maybe not as a whole. On the other hand, I think you are
> perhaps basing
> your statement on the noisy few instead of the general
> non-usenet-posting
> public? Because they don't post, you don't necessarily know
> whether they
> appreciate your efforts or not...?
It's not that audience does not appreciate the effort, the audience simply
recognizes that the best "story" in a computer game never seems to equal the
worst story in other media. They feel cheated.
This is not to say it's easy. But simply because it's been done with less
skill that the background art has been painted in the past, does not mean
it's impossible, or that it shouldn't be done, or even that it will all fall
into place should the logistics be magically worked out. It takes thought.
It takes preparation. And it takes people who know how to do it.
> Your shoe quest, which was already in there in the first
> place (being given
> to any NPC at any different time), becomes a little more epic, simply
> because of the type of shoes involved, and the NPC who cares about the
> shoes. Shoes don't have to be boring, you know. ;)
I agree. Even a small quest like this can be one small step for the player,
one giant leap into epic adventure. And there, I've jump in with both feet.
Feel free to kick back. :)
Lee
_______________________________________________
MUD-Dev mailing list
MUD-Dev#kanga,nu
<A HREF="http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev">http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev</A>
</PRE>
<!--X-Body-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-End-->
<!--X-Follow-Ups-->
<HR>
<!--X-Follow-Ups-End-->
<!--X-References-->
<UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>:
<UL>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00419" HREF="msg00419.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Quests</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "Madrona Tree" <madronatree#hotmail,com></LI></UL></LI>
</UL></LI></UL>
<!--X-References-End-->
<!--X-BotPNI-->
<UL>
<LI>Prev by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00519.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Justifying twinking</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00520.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] shrink wrapped mud development kit (fwd)</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Prev by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00419.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Quests</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00349.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Quests</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Index(es):
<UL>
<LI><A HREF="index.html#00525"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI>
<LI><A HREF="thread.html#00525"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
<!--X-BotPNI-End-->
<!--X-User-Footer-->
<!--X-User-Footer-End-->
<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Quests</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00299" HREF="msg00299.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Quests</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:the_logos#achaea,com">the_logos#achaea,com</a>, Sun 16 Apr 2000, 22:39 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00332" HREF="msg00332.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Quests</A></strong>,
Madrona Tree <a href="mailto:madronatree#hotmail,com">madronatree#hotmail,com</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 05:47 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00335" HREF="msg00335.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Quests</A></strong>,
Raph Koster <a href="mailto:rkoster#austin,rr.com">rkoster#austin,rr.com</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 06:40 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00419" HREF="msg00419.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Quests</A></strong>,
Madrona Tree <a href="mailto:madronatree#hotmail,com">madronatree#hotmail,com</a>, Tue 18 Apr 2000, 19:48 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00525" HREF="msg00525.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Quests</A></strong>,
Lee Sheldon <a href="mailto:linearno#gte,net">linearno#gte,net</a>, Sat 22 Apr 2000, 18:11 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00349" HREF="msg00349.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Quests</A></strong>,
Christopher Allen <a href="mailto:ChristopherA#skotos,net">ChristopherA#skotos,net</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 16:22 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00274" HREF="msg00274.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Spawning and quests (was Sony ban)</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:the_logos#achaea,com">the_logos#achaea,com</a>, Sat 15 Apr 2000, 17:21 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00387" HREF="msg00387.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Spawning and quests (was Sony ban)</A></strong>,
Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services <a href="mailto:Paul.Schwanz#east,sun.com">Paul.Schwanz#east,sun.com</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 20:21 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00389" HREF="msg00389.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Spawning and quests (was Sony ban)</A></strong>,
Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services <a href="mailto:Paul.Schwanz#east,sun.com">Paul.Schwanz#east,sun.com</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 20:47 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
</ul>
<hr>
<center>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
</center>
<hr>
</body>
</html>