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<H1>RE: [MUD-Dev] Justifying twinking</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: RE: [MUD-Dev] Justifying twinking</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "Raph Koster" <<A HREF="mailto:rkoster#austin,rr.com">rkoster#austin,rr.com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:49:33 -0500</LI>
<LI><em>Importance</em>: Normal</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu">mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu [<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu]On">mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu]On</A> Behalf Of
> adam#treyarch,com
> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 5:46 PM
> To: mud-dev#kanga,nu
> Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Justifying twinking
>
> The problem, and the reason why this is normally thought of as a bad
thing,
> is that it usually goes too far. If you give a newbie a Sword of Slaying,
> they will not only be more likely to continue playing, but they will
protect
> and value the sword for quite a while into their early career. If,
however,
> you deck them out in a complete set of ideal gear, it all starts to look
> the same to the newbie and they end up getting bored.
I completely agree that twinking to extremes has a large number of
undesirable effects to it. But they seem to me to be effects of the game
design, not of twinking per se. A lot depends here on what you are able to
deck them out in, what sorts of advantages yuo are able to grant, etc.
Asheron's Call's system does not offer specifics on what the leader gives
the follower, but it does have a standard for what the follower gives the
leader (followers tithe XP to the leader). But that doesn't mean that there
couldn't be such a standard. Grouping systems by default confer such a
standard--that whole XP split thing means that there is a default "currency"
with which the elder pays the newbie. If you took a few very standard things
in ordinary DIku muds, you'd have a viable system:
- XP split is scaled by level and/or damage done
- you can't group outside of certain lecvel ranges
Now, whether or not you like these design decisions (and in particular, I
dislike the second one), they make a rigid mathematical structure for what
reward an elder player gives to a newbie that he takes on XP runs.
It's pretty easy to imagine game designs wherein some sort of standard is
established (trainee or apprentice status perhaps) that sets parameters for
how and how long a newbie is twinked.
> And that is why we call them "twinks", or sometimes "high level newbies".
> They have the gear, the experience, or whatever else the mud uses to
measure
> power - but they don't have the knowledge or the know-how.
> On a PK mud, they have another name: "east target".
Yes indeed. :) The reason to make the controversial assertion I did was in
order to provoke thought, not to make a blanket statement that stands up to
scrutiny. ;) I think that because of the twinks we have grown used to, we
dismiss the entire notion of twinking or apprenticing, when in fact it could
be a powerful tool.
A lot of the problems with it being a powerful tool right now is the amount
of emphasis that current game designs place on items, on stats, and on other
character-centered attributes. Because of the roleplaying game heritage, we
tend to want to make success in a large range of activities dependent on
these elements of the user profile. But we don't tend to put a premium on
knowledge: knowledge of the game, of the community, etc. I am not talking
about something that is player-skill-dependent (like twitch game ability) in
that it can still be acquired over time by the most inept game player... but
it is also something that because of its amorphous nature, can't always be
handed over and instantly used.
If success at a given level of ability in your mud depends more on knowledge
of the game than on stats or items, then twinking's effects will likely be
reduced. (And yes, I know that knowledge has its own set of problems, sicne
it is quickly disseminated, etc...).
-Raph
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<li><strong><A NAME="00493" HREF="msg00493.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Justifying twinking</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> <adam@treyarch.com></li></ul>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>RE: [MUD-Dev] banning the sale of items</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
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<LI><strong><A NAME="00430" HREF="msg00430.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] banning the sale of items</A></strong>,
Raph Koster <a href="mailto:rkoster@austin.rr.com">rkoster@austin.rr.com</a>, Tue 18 Apr 2000, 22:20 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00431" HREF="msg00431.html">[MUD-Dev] Justifying twinking</A></strong>,
Raph Koster <a href="mailto:rkoster@austin.rr.com">rkoster@austin.rr.com</a>, Tue 18 Apr 2000, 22:20 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00436" HREF="msg00436.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Justifying twinking</A></strong>,
adam <a href="mailto:adam@treyarch.com">adam@treyarch.com</a>, Tue 18 Apr 2000, 23:12 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00449" HREF="msg00449.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Justifying twinking</A></strong>,
Geoffrey Z. <a href="mailto:gzatkin@verant.com">gzatkin@verant.com</a>, Wed 19 Apr 2000, 01:56 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00454" HREF="msg00454.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Justifying twinking</A></strong>,
Raph Koster <a href="mailto:rkoster@austin.rr.com">rkoster@austin.rr.com</a>, Wed 19 Apr 2000, 02:55 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00493" HREF="msg00493.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Justifying twinking</A></strong>,
adam <a href="mailto:adam@treyarch.com">adam@treyarch.com</a>, Thu 20 Apr 2000, 23:43 GMT
</LI>
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</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00446" HREF="msg00446.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Justifying twinking</A></strong>,
Ryan Palacio <a href="mailto:rpalacio@verant.com">rpalacio@verant.com</a>, Wed 19 Apr 2000, 01:34 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00453" HREF="msg00453.html">Re PRIVATE [MUD-Dev] Justifying twinking</A></strong>,
Kristen L. Koster <a href="mailto:koster@eden.com">koster@eden.com</a>, Wed 19 Apr 2000, 02:33 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00457" HREF="msg00457.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Justifying twinking</A></strong>,
F. Randall Farmer <a href="mailto:randy@communities.com">randy@communities.com</a>, Wed 19 Apr 2000, 03:42 GMT
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