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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "Jon Lambert" <<A HREF="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 23:44:19 -0400</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu">mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
Matthew Mihaly wrote:
>On Wed, 5 Apr 2000 adam#treyarch,com wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, Matthew Mihaly wrote:
>> > I can't ever really guarantee a player the ability to say anything he
>> > wants. For instance, no player would be allowed to use a public channel to
>> > express homophobic or racist views.
>>
>> Yes - and in addition, I'd argue that this rule has little to do with these
>> specific subjects, and more to do with the fact that they are so far outside
>> the realm of what your forum offers to its members that their presence
>> is jarring.
>
>From my point of view, it has nothing to do with ooc issues, but simply
>that I, as the admin, am not going to stand for my world being used as a
>place to spout off views I find noxious in the extreme.
>
Do you tolerate Bubba the Troll logging in and taunting Elves as "pointy-eared
treehuggers"? Or is IC racism OK?
I would suspect that most administrators don't tolerate speech they find
to be noxious. Yet those same administrators will allow the above expression
in IC speech. And yet IC speech which shares a set of contemporary _hot_
words might well trigger an administrator to act. For instance, Bubba the Troll
would be on a slippery slope if he referred to Drow elves as "trident-chucking
darkies" or the Priests of Bast as "the boy buggerers of Bast".
I think the issue is definately an OOC issue (the administrators beliefs being
properly OOC). And these are expressed in both the published game rules and
a mud's body of common law that comes about through administrator action, or
by rumor and pronouncement.
In the past, I have proposed the idea where administrators could automatically
censor and filter player speech by removing or replacing keywords making such
communications difficult and less offensive simply by virtue of requiring players to
express it in synonyms, symbols and phonetics (i.e. "f**K you", "u mf", or "mucker")
Or as an option, players could choose to set up their own filters as well as
gags. Now besides the issue that there are an infinite number of ways players
can subvert such silly code, there was a sizable share who felt this was an
incredibly evil idea since muds are "all about creativity and free speech".
I would maintain most of the major issues of mud administration (and as
expressed in this thread) really revolve around, "How can we censor xxx"?
>> I would gag/discon/ban someone just as quickly for expressing anti-homophobic
>> or anti-racist views out of the blue as I would the reverse. A mud is a
>> shared fantasy, and discussions of this nature shatter that fantasy,
>> regardless of whether the ideas being presented are "morally right" or not.
>
>I wouldn't. There's nothing out of role about homophobia, racism, or
>anti-homophobia, or anti-racism. We have a number of homosexual characters
>in Achaea, for instance, and have even dealt with the issue of same-sex
>marriages.
Are you saying you don't allow players to express views on a public channel
that would be derisive of those marriages, yet do allow players to express
affirmative views of those marriages on a public channel? And are you saying
you allow both views in private, in-game or otherwise in-role communications?
How exactly do you deal with the issue?
My administrative view on the two issues you brought up, and a third which I'll
bring up now, 'sexism' would be to allow players free reign in expressing any
views on those areas in public, private, OOC and IC. My primary interest
in censorship is in the area of IC behavior and speech that does not fit within the
spirit and theme of the game.
I'm guessing this view is different from Adam's or yours.
--
--* Jon A. Lambert - TychoMUD Email: jlsysinc#nospam,ix.netcom.com *--
--* Mud Server Developer's Page <<A HREF="http://jlsysinc.home.netcom.com">http://jlsysinc.home.netcom.com</A>> *--
--* "No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." Thomas Jefferson *--
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<li><strong><A NAME="00085" HREF="msg00085.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Matthew Mihaly <the_logos#achaea,mudservices.com></li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00082" HREF="msg00082.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> "Rasdan" <rasdan#home,com></li></ul>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>RE: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00035" HREF="msg00035.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Tue 04 Apr 2000, 16:11 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00036" HREF="msg00036.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Tue 04 Apr 2000, 16:11 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00063" HREF="msg00063.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong>,
adam <a href="mailto:adam#treyarch,com">adam#treyarch,com</a>, Wed 05 Apr 2000, 18:45 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00076" HREF="msg00076.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:the_logos#achaea,mudservices.com">the_logos#achaea,mudservices.com</a>, Fri 07 Apr 2000, 01:29 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00078" HREF="msg00078.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong>,
Jon Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Fri 07 Apr 2000, 15:19 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00082" HREF="msg00082.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong>,
Rasdan <a href="mailto:rasdan#home,com">rasdan#home,com</a>, Fri 07 Apr 2000, 16:53 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00085" HREF="msg00085.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:the_logos#achaea,mudservices.com">the_logos#achaea,mudservices.com</a>, Fri 07 Apr 2000, 20:37 GMT
</LI>
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