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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Fw: 16K mud server competition !</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: &lt;<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>&gt;</LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Fw: 16K mud server competition !</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "Jay Carlson" &lt;<A HREF="mailto:nop#mitre,org">nop#mitre,org</A>&gt;</LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 17:46:06 -0400</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu">mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
"Miroslav Silovic" &lt;silovic#zesoi,fer.hr&gt; writes on Tuesday, April 04, 2000
7:52 AM:

[mud in small number of bytes]

&gt; Seriously, I haven't read the contest rules yet, but I assume they
&gt; limit the language selection.

Well, it'd be interesting to see if MOO or LPC would actually be winners.

&gt; Otherwise, you can just write a MUD in
&gt; Java or Common LISP (The Language With Everything On, or Did You
&gt; Really Think That -Emacs- Was Big? or MMap Twenty Megabytes On
&gt; Startup), and use all the available libraries for these languages - as
&gt; a result, you'd get really small code indeed, and it'd want to link to
&gt; megabytes of runtime environment.

Lisp gets a bad rap here.  Just about every C app on the system gets to mmap
in libc.so, and from there it gets worse:

~ slothrop$ uname -a
SunOS slothrop 5.7 Generic_106541-05 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-1
~ slothrop$ ldd /bin/ksh
        libsocket.so.1 =&gt;        /usr/lib/libsocket.so.1
        libnsl.so.1 =&gt;   /usr/lib/libnsl.so.1
        libc.so.1 =&gt;     /usr/lib/libc.so.1
        libdl.so.1 =&gt;    /usr/lib/libdl.so.1
        libmp.so.2 =&gt;    /usr/lib/libmp.so.2
~ slothrop$ size /lib/libc.so.1
   text    data     bss     dec     hex filename
 669816   19673    6480  695969   a9ea1 /lib/libc.so.1
~ slothrop$ # This adds up sizes of the text and data segments for all the
shared libraries used by an executable (but not the executable's size
itself.)
~ slothrop$ totalsize () { ldd $1 | awk '{print $3}' | xargs size | awk '/^
*[0-9]/ {t += $1 + $2} END {printf t;}' ; echo " $1" ; }
~ slothrop$ for x in /usr/dt/bin/*; do totalsize $x; done 2&gt;/dev/null |
sort -nr | more
8257893 /usr/dt/bin/sdtfontadm
7162744 /usr/dt/bin/dtbuilder  [...]
6788532 /usr/dt/bin/dtmail [...]
6671642 /usr/dt/bin/sdtformat_floppy
6667113 /usr/dt/bin/dtcodegen [...]
6101377 /usr/dt/bin/dthelpview [...]
5935387 /usr/dt/bin/dtwm
5877097 /usr/dt/bin/dtterm

KDE looks pretty svelte in comparison---the terminal only needs 4M of shared
libraries to come up.  I'm still trying to forget the project from a few
years ago that linked in truly massive piles of CORBA and auto-generated
libraries....

Jay







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<li><strong><A NAME="00058" HREF="msg00058.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fw: 16K mud server competition !</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Miroslav Silovic &lt;silovic@zesoi.fer.hr&gt;</li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00052" HREF="msg00052.html">Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] Fw: 16K mud server competition !</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Travis Casey &lt;efindel@io.com&gt;</li></ul>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00029" HREF="msg00029.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fw: 16K mud server competition !</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Cynbe ru Taren &lt;cynbe@muq.org&gt;</LI></UL></LI>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00031" HREF="msg00031.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fw: 16K mud server competition !</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Miroslav Silovic &lt;silovic@zesoi.fer.hr&gt;</LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] Fw: 16K mud server competition !</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00049" HREF="msg00049.html">Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] Fw: 16K mud server competition !</A></strong>, 
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel@io.com">efindel@io.com</a>, Wed 05 Apr 2000, 00:42 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00047" HREF="msg00047.html">Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] Fw: 16K mud server competition !</A></strong>, 
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel@io.com">efindel@io.com</a>, Wed 05 Apr 2000, 00:37 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00029" HREF="msg00029.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fw: 16K mud server competition !</A></strong>, 
Cynbe ru Taren <a href="mailto:cynbe@muq.org">cynbe@muq.org</a>, Tue 04 Apr 2000, 05:30 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00031" HREF="msg00031.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fw: 16K mud server competition !</A></strong>, 
Miroslav Silovic <a href="mailto:silovic@zesoi.fer.hr">silovic@zesoi.fer.hr</a>, Tue 04 Apr 2000, 16:11 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00043" HREF="msg00043.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fw: 16K mud server competition !</A></strong>, 
Jay Carlson <a href="mailto:nop@mitre.org">nop@mitre.org</a>, Tue 04 Apr 2000, 22:22 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00052" HREF="msg00052.html">Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] Fw: 16K mud server competition !</A></strong>, 
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel@io.com">efindel@io.com</a>, Wed 05 Apr 2000, 01:03 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00058" HREF="msg00058.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fw: 16K mud server competition !</A></strong>, 
Miroslav Silovic <a href="mailto:silovic@zesoi.fer.hr">silovic@zesoi.fer.hr</a>, Wed 05 Apr 2000, 15:27 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00042" HREF="msg00042.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Fw: 16K mud server competition !</A></strong>, 
Powell, Warren <a href="mailto:warren.powell@nz.unisys.com">warren.powell@nz.unisys.com</a>, Tue 04 Apr 2000, 22:22 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00051" HREF="msg00051.html">Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] Fw: 16K mud server competition !</A></strong>, 
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel@io.com">efindel@io.com</a>, Wed 05 Apr 2000, 00:46 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>

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