<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens --> <!--X-From-R13: [nggurj [vunyl <gur_ybtbfNnpunrn.zhqfreivprf.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 13:37:47 -0700 --> <!--X-Message-Id: Pine.LNX.4.10.10004071818160.2491-100000@achaea.mudservices.com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: 008701bfa043$b5126d80$020101df@JonLambert --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:the_logos@achaea.mudservices.com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00084.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00088.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00082.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00102.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00085">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00085">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00085">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Matthew Mihaly <<A HREF="mailto:the_logos#achaea,mudservices.com">the_logos#achaea,mudservices.com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 18:28:33 +0000 (GMT)</LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu">mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Jon Lambert wrote: > Matthew Mihaly wrote: > > > >From my point of view, it has nothing to do with ooc issues, but simply > >that I, as the admin, am not going to stand for my world being used as a > >place to spout off views I find noxious in the extreme. > > > > Do you tolerate Bubba the Troll logging in and taunting Elves as "pointy-eared > treehuggers"? Or is IC racism OK? Oh sure, I couldn't care less about this. People are always tossing racial insults around: You swamp-dwelling slimey Grook, or, rat-eating Rajamala. This doesn't ACTUALLY offend any of my customers to any significant degree, and it doesn't offend me at all. > I would suspect that most administrators don't tolerate speech they find > to be noxious. Yet those same administrators will allow the above expression > in IC speech. And yet IC speech which shares a set of contemporary _hot_ > words might well trigger an administrator to act. For instance, Bubba the Troll > would be on a slippery slope if he referred to Drow elves as "trident-chucking > darkies" or the Priests of Bast as "the boy buggerers of Bast". It's a judgement call. The US Supreme Court uses the same standard for obscenity incidentally. They dno't try to define it, but feel that a "I know it when I see it" approach is fine. In a relatively small game such as Achaea (maxing at about 135 players simultaneously right now), it's not hard to pull this off. > I think the issue is definately an OOC issue (the administrators beliefs being > properly OOC). And these are expressed in both the published game rules and > a mud's body of common law that comes about through administrator action, or > by rumor and pronouncement. Yeah, I definitely agree. Ooc issue. > In the past, I have proposed the idea where administrators could automatically > censor and filter player speech by removing or replacing keywords making such > communications difficult and less offensive simply by virtue of requiring players to > express it in synonyms, symbols and phonetics (i.e. "f**K you", "u mf", or "mucker") > Or as an option, players could choose to set up their own filters as well as > gags. Now besides the issue that there are an infinite number of ways players > can subvert such silly code, there was a sizable share who felt this was an > incredibly evil idea since muds are "all about creativity and free speech". > I would maintain most of the major issues of mud administration (and as > expressed in this thread) really revolve around, "How can we censor xxx"? Yeah, I am not a big fan of filters and such just because it turns into a battle to try and outwit the filters. > >I wouldn't. There's nothing out of role about homophobia, racism, or > >anti-homophobia, or anti-racism. We have a number of homosexual characters > >in Achaea, for instance, and have even dealt with the issue of same-sex > >marriages. > > > Are you saying you don't allow players to express views on a public channel > that would be derisive of those marriages, yet do allow players to express > affirmative views of those marriages on a public channel? And are you saying > you allow both views in private, in-game or otherwise in-role communications? > How exactly do you deal with the issue? Oh, they could be derisive of the marriages. I just won't stand for things like (pardon the following): F*CKING FAGGOTS! If players can dress up some restrained criticism of gay players into a relatively role-related issue (perhaps that player's God does not like homosexuality) then I don't mind. I tend to get quite down on the teenage idiots who aren't mature enough to dress it up though. > My administrative view on the two issues you brought up, and a third which I'll > bring up now, 'sexism' would be to allow players free reign in expressing any > views on those areas in public, private, OOC and IC. My primary interest > in censorship is in the area of IC behavior and speech that does not fit within the > spirit and theme of the game. Yeah, I mainly agree with you. _______________________________________________ MUD-Dev mailing list MUD-Dev#kanga,nu <A HREF="http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev">http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev</A> </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00102" HREF="msg00102.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Par Winzell <zell@alyx.com></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00078" HREF="msg00078.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "Jon Lambert" <jlsysinc@ix.netcom.com></LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00084.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Same-Sex Marriage (was: Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens)</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00088.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] dealing with foul language</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00082.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00102.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00085"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00085"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00063" HREF="msg00063.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong>, adam <a href="mailto:adam@treyarch.com">adam@treyarch.com</a>, Wed 05 Apr 2000, 18:45 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00076" HREF="msg00076.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong>, Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:the_logos@achaea.mudservices.com">the_logos@achaea.mudservices.com</a>, Fri 07 Apr 2000, 01:29 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00078" HREF="msg00078.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong>, Jon Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc@ix.netcom.com">jlsysinc@ix.netcom.com</a>, Fri 07 Apr 2000, 15:19 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00082" HREF="msg00082.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong>, Rasdan <a href="mailto:rasdan@home.com">rasdan@home.com</a>, Fri 07 Apr 2000, 16:53 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00085" HREF="msg00085.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong>, Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:the_logos@achaea.mudservices.com">the_logos@achaea.mudservices.com</a>, Fri 07 Apr 2000, 20:37 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00102" HREF="msg00102.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong>, Par Winzell <a href="mailto:zell@alyx.com">zell@alyx.com</a>, Sun 09 Apr 2000, 04:43 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>