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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: <A HREF="mailto:maddog#best,com">maddog#best,com</A></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 18:09:15 -0700 (PDT)</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu">mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
Ryan Palacio wrote:
> F. Randall Farmer wrote:
> > Comments? Any EQ guys wanna share some thoughts? :-)
>
> Disclaimer: The following represents my own personal opinion and in no way
> reflects the opinion of Verant Interactive, 989 Studios, and/or Sony Online
> Entertainment.
>
> Even as the OOC sale of items, characters, and/or information is frowned
> upon (or "illegal") on most MUDs, EQ (or any other _persistent_ online game
> with transferable goods) must take the same, if not a more strict, stance.
> The ramifications of directly, or indirectly, condoning or ignoring this
> issue puts the viability and longevity of the game at risk. When money is
> involved, the anti-social nature of people becomes more predominant.
> Camping, kill-stealing, fraud, harassment, and numerous other types of
> problematic behaviors become more acceptable, even to those with a distaste
> for such action, when the trade-off involves increasing their RL personal
> wealth. Additionally, the gross anonymity of the environment can create a
> perception that the potential consequences are less effective/meaningful.
I don't think the numbers support the "pvp for profit" thesis. On
any given day there were 4000+ items/accounts for sale on Ebay. However,
RallosZek, the PVP with the worst rep, represented at most less than 100
items/accounts per day. There was no evidence to suggest that PVP was
creating an Ebay business. Definitely there were item farmers on
Rallos Zek and other servers. Although the number of Ebay trades has
gone down the last few days, I suspect that item farming has not
gone down at all. As Brad had previously stated, the issue is more
of a "moral" question rather than a business question. The fraud
issue was taken as an excuse to shutdown the auction side of business.
The fact is that Verant feels that people are in some way cheating
if they buy and sell things (apparently just sell since there is
nothing about buying or trading).
item farming is not a profitable business. Neither is account selling.
A level 50 account can go from 800 to maybe 1800-2000 if it is a top
account. Even at minimum wage the hours to create such an account
does not compensate the person for the time they put into the account.
However, it also seems a waste to let all the work get destroyed
90 days later when a person stops paying on the account. They should
at least archive it for a year with some potential to revive it later.
Common objects can't be sold. hard objects can take 12 hours or more to
get. Extremely rare are almost impossible to get or are no longer
available from mobs.
The other thing that such a move does is get the people off of
fairly safe places such as Ebay and into more underground activities.
But such is Verant's (Brad's) surgical approach to problems.
A few days ago Brad had intended to outlaw ShowEQ. That would have
involved searching people's computer systems. Although 80%, according
to his survey, didn't mind, he changed his mind -- for whatever reason.
Another example of the surgical approach. Federal law goes into effect
soon about information gathering practices and children under 13. Verant
solution? Get all the under 13 off the accounts.
if Verant thinks it has a problem today with Ebay, wait until the
Star Wars game comes out. they will have to post armed guards
at the URL of Ebay and other places.
Final note about a place like Ebay. I have the reputation of the seller
available to me. I have the email, home address, and phone number
available. I have an excellent support and fraud group ready to
help if there is a problem. I have an escrow account i can use.
I have a mediator i can use. I can register the complaint with
the U.S. Postal Service and the National Fraud Hotline. I am also
covered by Lloyds of London insurance. And I could, under special
circumstances, bring criminal charges. What do I have through a
bulletin board posting or private transactions done through
several underground methods? Accounts such as Botch and Petunia
were done as private transactions and not through Ebay or
other such thing.
frank
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<li><strong><A NAME="00201" HREF="msg00201.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> "Ryan Palacio" <rpalacio#verant,com></li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00196" HREF="msg00196.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale of online characters from its populargaming sites</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Wes Connell <wconnell#skotos,net></li></ul>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00187" HREF="msg00187.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites</A></STRONG>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>RE: [MUD-Dev] banning the sale of items</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00203" HREF="msg00203.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] banning the sale of items</A></strong>,
Geoffrey A. MacDougall <a href="mailto:geoffrey#poptronik,com">geoffrey#poptronik,com</a>, Wed 12 Apr 2000, 04:36 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00215" HREF="msg00215.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] banning the sale of items</A></strong>,
Raph Koster <a href="mailto:rkoster#austin,rr.com">rkoster#austin,rr.com</a>, Wed 12 Apr 2000, 05:50 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00218" HREF="msg00218.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] banning the sale of items</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:the_logos#achaea,com">the_logos#achaea,com</a>, Wed 12 Apr 2000, 07:42 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00187" HREF="msg00187.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites</A></strong>,
Ryan Palacio <a href="mailto:rpalacio#verant,com">rpalacio#verant,com</a>, Tue 11 Apr 2000, 23:22 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00193" HREF="msg00193.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites</A></strong>,
maddog <a href="mailto:maddog#best,com">maddog#best,com</a>, Wed 12 Apr 2000, 01:24 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00196" HREF="msg00196.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale of online characters from its populargaming sites</A></strong>,
Wes Connell <a href="mailto:wconnell#skotos,net">wconnell#skotos,net</a>, Wed 12 Apr 2000, 04:04 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00212" HREF="msg00212.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites</A></strong>,
Frank Crowell <a href="mailto:maddog#maddog,com">maddog#maddog,com</a>, Wed 12 Apr 2000, 05:50 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00201" HREF="msg00201.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites</A></strong>,
Ryan Palacio <a href="mailto:rpalacio#verant,com">rpalacio#verant,com</a>, Wed 12 Apr 2000, 04:05 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00202" HREF="msg00202.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#kanga,nu">claw#kanga,nu</a>, Wed 12 Apr 2000, 04:36 GMT
</LI>
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