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<H1>RE: [MUD-Dev] Declaration of the Rights of Avatars</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: RE: [MUD-Dev] Declaration of the Rights of Avatars</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Matthew Mihaly <<A HREF="mailto:the_logos#achaea,com">the_logos#achaea,com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 08:30:49 +0000 (GMT)</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
On Sun, 16 Apr 2000, John Bertoglio wrote:
> > Matthew Mihaly
>> <stuff snipped about how I do not believe in rights>
> In society, rights are very real. They result from the people giving
> up freedom. We trade our freedom to obtain rights. We give up our right
> to drive any way we want to obtain a (modest) right to safety on the
> highway. Every time we demand a right, it is always bought with
> freedom. Are there inalienable rights? I am not sure. Perhaps what we
> call inalienable rights are simply those which most members of society
> will give up their freedom for. I give up my freedom to take a weapon
> onto an airplane in return for a right to a very low chance I will have
> delay due to a hijacking.
From whence did this right to drive any way we want derive though? What
form does it take? Does it have any meaning beyond conceptual?
> In a game world this translates to a simple formula . . . Players trade
> some level of freedom of speech and action for the right to have
> an environment with some degree of predictability and control. When the
> majority of individuals in the world are happy with the rights/freedom
> balance, you can have reasonable harmony. Clearly, this becomes more
> difficult as the numbers of players reach mass market levels.
Yes, I should have specified actually. I don't believe in naturally
derived rights. Rights are just the will/desire for something combined
with the power to do/prevent whatever it is you want or want to be free
from. For instance, using your examples, you might say that we give our
right to drive however we wish, but I say that's hoeey. I didn't give up
that right. I can hop into my car right now and go drive like a maniac if
I wish, and, if I choose my roads right, get away with it. This is what I
mean by rights being meaningless. They are just psychological constructs.
You might say I don't have the right to come to your house and kick you in
the shins, but if I did it, then what...I didn't have the right but I
didn't it any way? The right exists in your mind, but really, only in your
mind.
> If I play in a world with an active administration who intervenes to
> promote certain player rights, I must give up some of my freedom in order
> to be allowed to continue to participate. I must accept the constraints
> on my behavior in order to enjoy the benefits to me that imposing those
> constraints on other provides. A looser environment will allow more
> freedom but this freedom will be bought at the price of chaos. Some
> people like chaos.
You must accept the constraints on your behavior only because you have no
choice. That's what any implementation of rights is. Depending on people
to act with YOUR system of ethics is not a scalable expectation, and so
far every evey moderately sized community in history has relied on clubs
and guns (metamorphically) to enforce "rights" (which, again, in my view
are just the will or desire combined with power).
--matt
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00340" HREF="msg00340.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Declaration of the Rights of Avatars</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "John Bertoglio" <jb#pulsepoll,com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>RE: [MUD-Dev] Declaration of the Rights of Avatars</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00342" HREF="msg00342.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Declaration of the Rights of Avatars</A></strong>,
Raph Koster <a href="mailto:rkoster#austin,rr.com">rkoster#austin,rr.com</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 06:42 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00366" HREF="msg00366.html">[MUD-Dev] AI, Bots, Scripting.</A></strong>,
Veygoth <a href="mailto:veygoth#stax,net">veygoth#stax,net</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 16:22 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00379" HREF="msg00379.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] AI, Bots, Scripting.</A></strong>,
David Bennett <a href="mailto:ddt#discworld,imaginary.com">ddt#discworld,imaginary.com</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 20:17 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00340" HREF="msg00340.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Declaration of the Rights of Avatars</A></strong>,
John Bertoglio <a href="mailto:jb#pulsepoll,com">jb#pulsepoll,com</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 06:40 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00352" HREF="msg00352.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Declaration of the Rights of Avatars</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:the_logos#achaea,com">the_logos#achaea,com</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 16:22 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00337" HREF="msg00337.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Declaration of the Rights of Avatars</A></strong>,
Raph Koster <a href="mailto:rkoster#austin,rr.com">rkoster#austin,rr.com</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 06:41 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00358" HREF="msg00358.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Declaration of the Rights of Avatars</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:the_logos#achaea,com">the_logos#achaea,com</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 16:22 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00305" HREF="msg00305.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Declaration of the Rights of Avatars</A></strong>,
Christopher Allen <a href="mailto:ChristopherA#skotos,net">ChristopherA#skotos,net</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 00:28 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00325" HREF="msg00325.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Declaration of the Rights of Avatars</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:the_logos#achaea,com">the_logos#achaea,com</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 04:52 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
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