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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Quote from a Simutronics developer</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Quote from a Simutronics developer</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Phillip Lenhardt <<A HREF="mailto:philen#monkey,org">philen#monkey,org</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:02:37 -0400</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
On Sun, Apr 16, 2000 at 11:04:25PM -0500, Raph Koster wrote:
> Anyone have any thoughts on this? I clipped it from the VaultNetwork, from
> whence it will quickly scroll off tomorrow or the next day. :)
>
> start quote--->
> [snip]
> Game. We're building a game. Using the most general definitions, a game is
> an activity that provides entertainment or amusement. Using the vernacular
> of object oriented programming, a game "IS A" form of entertainment, not
> "HAS A" form of entertainment.
>
> Games are a subclass of entertainment, not the other way around The same can
> be said of watching TV and burning ants with a magnifying glass, but logic
> tells us that not all subsets of a given set necessarily overlap with each
> other.
>
> Since we're building a game and want to meet that goal and thereby succeed
> and ensure the continued life of this company, it is important not to expend
> resources on incorporating unnecessary levels of entertainment into the game
> which are not game-related. Going for a walk in the woods, having a picnic,
> and enjoying the company of your fellow sentient is something that can be
> done in all our currently existing games, and I see no reason why it
> shouldn't be possible in Hero's Journey as well. But make such activities
> engaging to the point of being able to do them to them day after day, for
> hours on end, over the course of a couple of years? I don't think so - going
> on a picnic isn't a game no matter how entertaining it is.
>
> So, what makes a game, a game? Let's find some other definitions: "a period
> of competition or challenge", "a contest, physical or mental, according to
> certain rules, for amusement, recreation, or for winning a stake; as, a game
> of chance; games of skill; field games, etc.", "a physical or mental
> competition conducted according to rules with the participants in direct
> opposition to each other".
>
> *Those* definitions explain why combat creeps into the equations so quickly.
> And considering the ease of quantifying RL combat for implementation into a
> game, compared to quantifying politics, it's not hard to understand why
> there are so few massively multiplayer online political games.
> [snip]
> - Mike "Jhyrryl" Paddock
> <---end quote
I might claim that games are not subclasses entertainment; instead making
the weaker claim that every member of the set of games is also a member
of the set of entertainments.
Also, I might claim that a thing's membership in the set of games is not
determined by having certain properties (ie, there is no simple definition
of game). Instead, I might claim that:
having properties A+B make a thing a game,
having properties B+C make a thing a game,
having properties A+C do not make a thing a game,
having property D prevents a thing from ever being a game,
having properties A+B+C are not sufficient to make a thing a game.
That is to say, I might claim an algorithmic definition of game.
Then again, I might not. ;)
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00321" HREF="msg00321.html">[MUD-Dev] Quote from a Simutronics developer</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "Raph Koster" <rkoster@austin.rr.com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00321" HREF="msg00321.html">[MUD-Dev] Quote from a Simutronics developer</A></strong>,
Raph Koster <a href="mailto:rkoster@austin.rr.com">rkoster@austin.rr.com</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 04:52 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00386" HREF="msg00386.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Quote from a Simutronics developer</A></strong>,
Erik Jarvi <a href="mailto:ejarvi@megsinet.net">ejarvi@megsinet.net</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 20:17 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00395" HREF="msg00395.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Quote from a Simutronics developer</A></strong>,
Ryan Palacio <a href="mailto:rpalacio@verant.com">rpalacio@verant.com</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 21:53 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00506" HREF="msg00506.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Quote from a Simutronics developer</A></strong>,
Erik Jarvi <a href="mailto:ejarvi@megsinet.net">ejarvi@megsinet.net</a>, Sat 22 Apr 2000, 04:13 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00397" HREF="msg00397.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Quote from a Simutronics developer</A></strong>,
Phillip Lenhardt <a href="mailto:philen@monkey.org">philen@monkey.org</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 22:06 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
<UL>
<li><Possible follow-up(s)><br>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00362" HREF="msg00362.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Quote from a Simutronics developer</A></strong>,
Ananda Dawnsinger <a href="mailto:ananda@greyrealms.com">ananda@greyrealms.com</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 16:22 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00471" HREF="msg00471.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Quote from a Simutronics developer</A></strong>,
Raph Koster <a href="mailto:rkoster@austin.rr.com">rkoster@austin.rr.com</a>, Wed 19 Apr 2000, 18:55 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00312" HREF="msg00312.html">[MUD-Dev] Scott Guzman on RGM.Admin</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw@kanga.nu">claw@kanga.nu</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 03:27 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00307" HREF="msg00307.html">[MUD-Dev] E3 and potential meet?</A></strong>,
Ryan Palacio <a href="mailto:rpalacio@verant.com">rpalacio@verant.com</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 02:39 GMT
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
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