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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "S. Patrick Gallaty" <<A HREF="mailto:choke#sirius,com">choke#sirius,com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 00:07:58 -0700</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu">mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
-----Original Message-----
From: John Bertoglio <jb#pulsepoll,com>
To: mud-dev#kanga,nu <mud-dev#kanga,nu>
Date: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 9:58 AM
Subject: RE: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran
[ other good commentary deleted ]
>Sony should not ban the practice, they should make it impossible through an
>ingame
>redesign.
>
>A lively aftermarket is a good thing for a game and its community of
>players.
>
>John A. Bertoglio
It's insights like this that inspire me on mud-dev. Yes, precisely,
exactly. This should be addressed as an issue of affordances.
So long as the behaviour that is classified as game-harmful exploitation can
occur, and there's any motivation to do it, it will happen. The cure to
social ills in an artificial environment is to create a set of game
mechanics in which the behaviour becomes unprofitable, not to try to enforce
law. How many times has each of us simply tried to tell players not to do
something, and seen how far that goes? If it's possible, it will be done.
Someone won't get the message. I think we would all agree too that anything
that leads to less player-policing is good, and anything that leads to more
player-policing is bad. Ideally we want our administrators completely
hands-off wrt players, unless it's some scripted affair.
Look at UO and macroing. First they said "Don't do this", and people did it
still. Then they said "You'll be banned", and people did it still. They
dedicated support effort and man hours to crack down on macroers, and people
did it even still. Finally they put in code that reduces the effectiveness
of repetitive activities. That logistical change cured a large part of the
problem. Making it so that a player can try to macro if they wish, but they
gain no skill is an administratively neutral position. Noone is going to
end up in a hostile situation with a customer support rep over this. I.e.,
everyone's happier.
Even if ebay is banned, that doesn't stop these same people from 'farming'
items and then selling them in-game. The net result is the same for the
other players who are being crushed by higher level players competing for
items. Demonizing e-bay is not the right way to focus on the problem, or
worse it distracts from the real problem.
In my opinion, this is an example of designers overlooking the necessary
social engineering through game mechanics which alter the affordances of
undesirable behaviour.
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00238" HREF="msg00238.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran</A></strong>,
Brian Green <a href="mailto:brian@psychochild.org">brian@psychochild.org</a>, Fri 14 Apr 2000, 02:52 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00262" HREF="msg00262.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran</A></strong>,
Wes Connell <a href="mailto:wconnell@skotos.net">wconnell@skotos.net</a>, Sat 15 Apr 2000, 05:10 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00267" HREF="msg00267.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran</A></strong>,
John Bertoglio <a href="mailto:jb@pulsepoll.com">jb@pulsepoll.com</a>, Sat 15 Apr 2000, 05:11 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00331" HREF="msg00331.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw@kanga.nu">claw@kanga.nu</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 05:46 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00249" HREF="msg00249.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale ... point of view of an eq veteran</A></strong>,
S. Patrick Gallaty <a href="mailto:choke@sirius.com">choke@sirius.com</a>, Fri 14 Apr 2000, 02:52 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00220" HREF="msg00220.html">[MUD-Dev] [LONG] A slightly different perspective on Real money in Virtual worlds.</A></strong>,
Zak Jarvis <a href="mailto:zak@voidmonster.com">zak@voidmonster.com</a>, Wed 12 Apr 2000, 14:22 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00237" HREF="msg00237.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] [LONG] A slightly different perspective on Real money in Virtual worlds.</A></strong>,
Morten Andresen <a href="mailto:morten@mgon.com">morten@mgon.com</a>, Fri 14 Apr 2000, 02:52 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00211" HREF="msg00211.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: [Meta] other activities</A></strong>,
Jeff Freeman <a href="mailto:skeptack@antisocial.com">skeptack@antisocial.com</a>, Wed 12 Apr 2000, 05:50 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00209" HREF="msg00209.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: [Meta] other activities</A></strong>,
Par Winzell <a href="mailto:zell@alyx.com">zell@alyx.com</a>, Wed 12 Apr 2000, 05:50 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
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