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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale of online characters from itspopulargaming sites</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale of online characters from itspopulargaming sites</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Matthew Mihaly <<A HREF="mailto:the_logos#achaea,com">the_logos#achaea,com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 05:35:34 +0000 (GMT)</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu">mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
On Thu, 13 Apr 2000, S. Patrick Gallaty wrote:
> >On Tue, 11 Apr 2000, Ryan Palacio wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Maddog#best,com wrote:
> >>
> >> > item farming is not a profitable business.
> >>
> >> Commodity farming is most definitely a profitable business. If this were
> >> not true, why would EQ platinum and UO gold have higher US dollar
> exchange
> >> rates than currency from many countries?!
> >
> >This fact is _utterly_ irrelevant. Does the fact that the English pound
> >trades at a premium to the dollar mean that English goods are inherently
> >more valuable? Of course not. Likewise, does the fact that the Japanese
> >yen trades at a deep discount to the dollar indicate that Japanese
> >goods are less valuable? No. Comparing arbitrary currency amounts doesn't
> >mean anything, except in terms of changes in the relationship between the
> >two (as I understand it at least).
> >
>
> The eq platinum piece has a real-world value now, demonstrably so. His
> point was crystal clear I believe, and that is that the exploitive behaviour
> is immensely profitable. Make 1000 platinum any way you can and sell it on
> ebay for $75. How fast can you get 1000 plat? That depends on how
> efficient the item collection methods are. For some people who have the
> right characters to exploit certain faction manipulations to allow them
> unmolested access to rare mobs and high hitting power, a single item can
> bring them several thousand platinum pieces. The situation ryan is
> describing involves groups of high level players who literally 'control' all
> of the rare spawns on some servers, locking them down around the clock and
> then selling the items on ebay.
Whether it has real world value or not isn't what I disputed. You are
saying that because it has ANY exchange rate it has a value. This is true.
My point is merely that the exchange rate of a currency says nothing about
whether one can be profitable acquiring that currency in terms of time
spent. As I said, the Japanese currency trades at a huge discount to the
US dollar, but this has no bearing on whether or not Japanese can make any
money getting paid in yen and converting to dollars.
> Trust me pal, some of these people are making a lot of money. We do know of
> people who have quit their day jobs and made more money selling items on
> ebay.
Again, as I stated, I am not disputing that (though I have to wonder how
clearly they are thinking about their futures).
> >I'm not disputing that commodity farming is profitable, incidentally, just
> >that your example has no relevance to it being profitable.
>
>
> Again, I wholly disagree. His example demonstrated that eq virtual money
> has real-world value. This real-world value is what makes this business
> profitable.
His example only demonstrated that it has some sort of value. It said
nothing at all about whether someone can make money doing it. If it took
you 3 days to get one platinum piece and the exchange rate is 100 platinum
to 1 dollar, you'd not make a living at it. If, on the other hand, you can
get 100 platinum a minute then, given the same exchange rate, you'll make
a comfortable living. My point is merely that an exchange rate says
absolutely nothing about whether or not it's possible to make a living
using a currency.
> >
> >That is a poor analogy. In a movie theatre, _any_ interaction with fellow
> >patrons (for the most part...I'm not talking about the Rocky Horror
> >
>
> I have to back up ryan again. His point was that paying to get into the
> theatre doesn't give you license to disrupt other people's experience, and I
> thought his point was made. You've just said essentially the same thing
> less clearly while objecting to his example.
No, what I did was point out that the standard Verant uses is NOT the fact
that someone disrupts other people's experience in and of itself, but
rather a cost-benefit analysis. Some disruption is acceptable,
particularly if said player helps keep others in the game via positive
interaction. This is unlike a movie theatre, because in a movie theatre,
there's not really any possibility for positive interaction between me and
Bob in the back row. Bob can only irritate me, and thus the only benefit
he can possibly provide to the theatre is the money he paid. In EQ, I can
provide positive benefit to the game through interaction (helping newbies,
forming community, etc).
--matt
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00244" HREF="msg00244.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale of online characters from its populargaming sites</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "S. Patrick Gallaty" <choke#sirius,com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00233" HREF="msg00233.html">[MUD-Dev] MudDev FAQ part 1</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Fri 14 Apr 2000, 02:52 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00243" HREF="msg00243.html">[MUD-Dev] /. Article about EQ sales ban</A></strong>,
Nathan F Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Fri 14 Apr 2000, 02:51 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00268" HREF="msg00268.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] /. Article about EQ sales ban</A></strong>,
Raph Koster <a href="mailto:rkoster#austin,rr.com">rkoster#austin,rr.com</a>, Sat 15 Apr 2000, 05:11 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00244" HREF="msg00244.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale of online characters from its populargaming sites</A></strong>,
S. Patrick Gallaty <a href="mailto:choke#sirius,com">choke#sirius,com</a>, Fri 14 Apr 2000, 02:51 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00250" HREF="msg00250.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale of online characters from itspopulargaming sites</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:the_logos#achaea,com">the_logos#achaea,com</a>, Sat 15 Apr 2000, 05:11 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00239" HREF="msg00239.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Spawning and quests (was Sony ban)</A></strong>,
Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services <a href="mailto:Paul.Schwanz#east,sun.com">Paul.Schwanz#east,sun.com</a>, Fri 14 Apr 2000, 02:51 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00257" HREF="msg00257.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Spawning and quests (was Sony ban)</A></strong>,
Wes Connell <a href="mailto:wconnell#skotos,net">wconnell#skotos,net</a>, Sat 15 Apr 2000, 05:11 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00253" HREF="msg00253.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Spawning and quests (was Sony ban)</A></strong>,
Jeff Freeman <a href="mailto:skeptack#antisocial,com">skeptack#antisocial,com</a>, Sat 15 Apr 2000, 05:11 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00265" HREF="msg00265.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Spawning and quests (was Sony ban)</A></strong>,
Raph Koster <a href="mailto:rkoster#austin,rr.com">rkoster#austin,rr.com</a>, Sat 15 Apr 2000, 05:11 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
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