<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] code base inquiry --> <!--X-From-R13: X Q Znjerapr <pynjNxnatn.ah> --> <!--X-Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 20:59:01 -0800 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 10872.950849935#kanga,nu --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: B4D19FB3.342E%koster#eden,com --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] code base inquiry</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:claw#kanga,nu"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00401.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00406.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00410.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00411.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00405">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00405">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00405">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] code base inquiry</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] code base inquiry </LI> <LI><em>From</em>: J C Lawrence <<A HREF="mailto:claw#kanga,nu">claw#kanga,nu</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 20:58:55 -0800</LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu">mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> On Thu, 17 Feb 2000 12:53:07 -0500 Kristen L Koster <koster#eden,com> wrote: > Matt, you... Ahem. > ... WAY too many broad generalizations for me to be able to follow > this thread any longer. Buttons are being pushed, people are reacting. Let's take a timeout for a second and just have a dispassionate look at this before we spend yet more time demonstrating the other people's points for them: Commercial MUDs versus "free" MUDs (at least until the days of paid-for-by-advertising MUDs) Unarguably both are physically capable of being equally "excellent" for whatever your definition of "excellent" is. Further, I doubt any of us would argue that there are "free" MUDs out there that are of at least equal "quality" to the commercial offerings, taken as a whole and not in specific aspects (we all have flaws) for whatever your quality metrics are. However, (and I consider this a fairly safe broad and sweeping generality) each has a different concept of their target market, and their commitment to serving that market. For commercial games target market is often a question of player base size (and thus revenue maximisation). Other related and common metrics are market share and demographic penetration (which can be far more important than player base size when dealing with advertising **). The key point however is that they have a clearly defined purpose and a known, well defined, and measurable set of metrics to judge their success in that pursuit and to keep them on the "right path" should they waffle from the base company purpose at some point and start smelling the daisies instead. Largely, they have a clearly defined goal, a purpose, a set of policies that serve and support that purpose, and are engaged in the business of achieving that goal. For hobbyest games the definition of "target market" tends to be soft. Often it is, "people who like the things I do" without any clear definition of "what I want" or any awareness of how that varies over time (or why), and even less sense of long term dedication to that theme. Further, in the hobbyest game, it is very easy, and one is actively encouraged to do this, to get egos, personalities, and other irrelevancies (to the useful purposes of running a game) involved. That fact doesn't make it any easier. Unfortunately often you up with a set of people with some of half-understood ideas of what they are trying to do, all assuming that they all agree with the other people in the team (because after all its "cool") without ever checking if they do actually agree at anything more than the "really cool MUD" level, who are striving to achieve some goal that they've never formulated and likely wouldn't know if they actually hit it. You have to _name_, _want_, and _get_ your product. Achieving any purpose is a lot tougher if you don't have a clear statement and understanding of what that purpose is. Commercial establishments have a slight advantage here in that financial survival tends to help maintain focus, but that's not to say that hobbyest efforts can't have an equally if not better defined purpose, focus, etc etc etc. They just have different and often more personal distractions. How does all this plug into things like customer service, help files, tech support, and such? On the one side purpose achievement defines what level of assistance you need to provide to your terget market and how important it is. Its a fairly simple equation all told and on the commercial side there are money and resources on hand (to some level) for making sure it is done. On the hobbyest side however, its easy to overlook these "boring" things, and far too easy (and attractive) to just dump them and tacitly reclassify the target market as "people who can understand this stuff without my help and none o' them luser idiots either". Just how many OpenSource applications out there have decent user-level documentation that a non-IT person has a chance of understanding? Here endeth the philosophy lesson for today. ** I know of a highly profitable jazz (***) radio station, now sadly closed, that had incredible key affluent demographic penetration. Their total listening audience was not large, but it dominated certain demographics. On that basis they were able to charge, and easily get, fees for advertising that were fifteen or more times that of local pop stations that had audiences of, literally, a hundred times their size (but was mostly listed to by less affluent teeangers/young couples, etc). *** Was bought by a conglomerate to extend their chain, changed to a pop station as "we don't understand jazz but we know pop", proceeded to lose money hand over fist and shut down. -- J C Lawrence Home: claw#kanga,nu ----------(*) Other: coder#kanga,nu --=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=-- _______________________________________________ MUD-Dev maillist - MUD-Dev#kanga,nu <A HREF="http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev">http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev</A> </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00411" HREF="msg00411.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] code base inquiry</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Matthew Mihaly <diablo#best,com></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00389" HREF="msg00389.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] code base inquiry</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "Kristen L. Koster" <koster#eden,com></LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00401.html">[MUD-Dev] Codebase Ideas</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00406.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00410.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] code base inquiry</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00411.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] code base inquiry</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00405"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00405"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] code base inquiry</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00397" HREF="msg00397.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] code base inquiry</A></strong>, Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Thu 17 Feb 2000, 23:22 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00404" HREF="msg00404.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] code base inquiry</A></strong>, Justin Rogers <a href="mailto:justin#mlstoday,com">justin#mlstoday,com</a>, Fri 18 Feb 2000, 03:25 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00407" HREF="msg00407.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] code base inquiry</A></strong>, Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Fri 18 Feb 2000, 05:03 GMT <LI><strong><A NAME="00410" HREF="msg00410.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] code base inquiry</A></strong>, Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Fri 18 Feb 2000, 05:59 GMT </LI> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00405" HREF="msg00405.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] code base inquiry</A></strong>, J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#kanga,nu">claw#kanga,nu</a>, Fri 18 Feb 2000, 04:59 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00411" HREF="msg00411.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] code base inquiry</A></strong>, Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Fri 18 Feb 2000, 07:14 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00412" HREF="msg00412.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] code base inquiry</A></strong>, J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#kanga,nu">claw#kanga,nu</a>, Fri 18 Feb 2000, 07:35 GMT <LI><strong><A NAME="00415" HREF="msg00415.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] code base inquiry</A></strong>, Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Fri 18 Feb 2000, 07:49 GMT <LI><strong><A NAME="00422" HREF="msg00422.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] code base inquiry</A></strong>, Bryce Harrington <a href="mailto:bryce#neptune,net">bryce#neptune,net</a>, Fri 18 Feb 2000, 17:43 GMT </LI> </LI> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </ul> </ul> </ul> </ul> </ul> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>