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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender (fwd)</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender (fwd)</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Matthew Mihaly <<A HREF="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:36:23 -0700 (PDT)</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
Ilya wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:11:16 -0700 (PDT), Matthew Mihaly wrote:
>
> ))It's just a given in Achaea
> ))that there is way more going on than you can physically interact with. I'm
> ))not interested in modeling the entire NPC population of a city, for
> ))instance, as while it'd undoubtedly be cool, it's a waste of time and
> ))resources. Same goes for things like making every item in a room
> ))interactable. I don't argue that it wouldn't be a good thing, just that it
> ))isn't an efficient use of my money and time.
>
> I'll grant that if efficiency is the measure, then we are in
> total agreement.
Efficiency is, by definition, the best way to get anything done. Whether
my goal is to make money or make very detailed mud, efficiency is THE
consideration, if you have any imagination at all. I, and everyone else on
this list, have WAY more ideas than will ever get implemented, and we also
have limited time. It thus behooves you to be efficient about
accomplishing your goal, whatever that goal is.
> ))Players may, upon initially starting, be annoyed
> ))by such things, but in my experience, they simply accept it as inherent in
> ))the world, and move on, very quickly.
>
> In my experience many do, perhaps most, but many do not.
Yes, Im' willing to grant the many do not while accepting that most do.
It's not worth it (to me) to spend the huge amount of effort needed to
please everyone, if most people don't care.
> ))Not only is it tempting, but this is the way that all science of every
> ))type is done, from biology to physics to the soft sciences. Granted, none
> ))of the observations I have made here are supported by the kind of rigorous
> ))analysis that should be performed.
>
> Likely "the way it's done" is not taken by you, or anyone else
> on this list, as any sort of reasonable support for "how things
> should be done." But I expect the point you are trying to make
> is that this is common and reasonable. I am not so sure about that.
> I'd rather say that the best among us are quite capable of both
> experiencing the temptation to extrapolate in such a way, AND of
> resisting that temptation and constructing (and allowing for)
> broader theories based on the likelihood of missing data.
Well, in fact, induction is how we learn about the world around us, and
induction is just extrapolation from the particular to the general. It is
the foundation of knowledge, as without any general rules to deduct from
regarding specific instances, we have essentially no knowledge that isn't
a priori.
> That was really my own point -- we both assert data. These data
> conflict. These data are extrapolations from our own experience.
> To reconcile these conflicting data, we either discredit one set
> of data, or else we posit a larger set from which we both draw.
These data don't conflict. I said that my players don't seem to care. I
don't think you're talking about my players.
> ))Hmm, well, I don't really make friends with my users. I occassionally chat
> ))to one of them if he or she approaches me, but aside from that, my
> ))observations are based mainly on player-initiated feedback. They complain
> ))about other things, so I can't imagine why they wouldn't complain about
> ))inconsistencies, if they care.
>
> I assume you equate "get to know" with "make friends." I had not intended
> any such equation. I would submit that your game, like anyone else's, tends
> over time to attract players reasonably compatible with your world/game/play
> view of things. And that was the entire point of (2): we tend to skew our
> own sample sets, intentionally or unintentionally.
Yes, generally, I'd agre with the comment on sample sets. However, the
absolute and total lack of any complaints from my players bears some
thinking about. We advertise to the mud community at large, and get many
first-time mudders from other advertising. It's not really a homogenous
population, and there are enough different things to do that it doesn't
need to be. I think if people cared, at least SOMEONE would have
complained once. I'm not saying that no one cares. I'm saying that despite
the fact that it seems quite logical to say that people care, I don't
think that most do, and that's good enough for me.
--matt
_______________________________________________
MUD-Dev maillist - MUD-Dev#kanga,nu
<A HREF="http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev">http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev</A>
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<ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>:
<ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00488" HREF="msg00488.html">[MUD-Dev] Effiecient interaction (was deliver failed)</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Spin <spin#triode,net.au></li></ul>
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<STRONG><A HREF="msg00480.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Dynamic muds</A></STRONG>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00526" HREF="msg00526.html">[MUD-Dev] DIVE</A></strong>,
Holly Sommer <a href="mailto:hsommer#micro,ti.com">hsommer#micro,ti.com</a>, Fri 01 Oct 1999, 22:27 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00523" HREF="msg00523.html">[MUD-Dev] "Online migration and population mobility"</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Wed 29 Sep 1999, 18:39 GMT
<UL>
<li><Possible follow-up(s)><br>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00524" HREF="msg00524.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] "Online migration and population mobility"</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Thu 30 Sep 1999, 00:36 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00512" HREF="msg00512.html">[MUD-Dev] ADMIN: We're moving again</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#varesearch,com">claw#varesearch,com</a>, Mon 27 Sep 1999, 22:05 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00481" HREF="msg00481.html">[MUD-Dev] Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender (fwd)</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Fri 24 Sep 1999, 00:39 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00488" HREF="msg00488.html">[MUD-Dev] Effiecient interaction (was deliver failed)</A></strong>,
Spin <a href="mailto:spin#triode,net.au">spin#triode,net.au</a>, Fri 24 Sep 1999, 03:22 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00461" HREF="msg00461.html">[MUD-Dev] Mobiles AI and automation</A></strong>,
Crystalmir <a href="mailto:cmir#intrepid,inetsolve.com">cmir#intrepid,inetsolve.com</a>, Wed 22 Sep 1999, 18:09 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00468" HREF="msg00468.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Mobiles AI and automation</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Thu 23 Sep 1999, 00:08 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00473" HREF="msg00473.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Mobiles AI and automation</A></strong>,
Marc Bowden <a href="mailto:ryumo#merit,edu">ryumo#merit,edu</a>, Thu 23 Sep 1999, 21:05 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
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