<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] The Virtual Ecology --> <!--X-From-R13: Zvat Zb <yvatNsebfg.fyvzl.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:21:44 -0700 --> <!--X-Message-Id: Pine.LNX.3.96.990825062536.5878A-100000#frost,slimy.com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: Pine.GSU.4.10.9908240924380.15843-100000@inet5 --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] The Virtual Ecology</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:ling#frost,slimy.com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00138.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00139.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00134.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00141.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00137">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00137">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00137">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] The Virtual Ecology</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] The Virtual Ecology</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Ling Lo <<A HREF="mailto:ling#frost,slimy.com">ling#frost,slimy.com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 07:20:25 -0700 (PDT)</LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu">mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, Chris Turner wrote: > On Sun, 22 Aug 1999, Felix A. Croes wrote: > > > > Essentially you'd have two muds, a "real" one in which players > > move around, and a, much larger, "virtual" one in which everything, > > including the people who are controlled by users in the "real" mud, > > is just a statistic controlled by a simulated ecology (taking the > > latter in the broadest possible sense; for the sake of argument, > > "there are always exactly 5000 wolves in the virtual world" is > > considered to be a valid ecology). > > > > Actually, I think that this could be a good way to simulate an economy, > > though obviously one without emergent behaviours. You can even solve > > the spontaneous player creation problem: they are simply assumed to > > have entered from the virtual world, and the number of new players > > created equals the number of people that moved out of the virtual world. [snip] > Thats pretty much how I've planned on doing it, with one minor difference. > Basically the real stuff decays back into virtual after a while. Say for > example your player leaves the dragon's head on a pole out in the woods - > someone else (player or virtual stat.) could easily come wandering along and > walk off with it. If a virtual being has it, then itself becomes another > number in the system. Hopefully using the power law for frequency of appearance as well as events happening to the virtual item. Coining the term virtual is quite confusing since a mud object is virtual and we now have virtual virtual game objects. Bulk containers anyone? > There was a really good thread some time ago (at least a year ago) about > what to do if a vitally important object (the example was a key) was thrown > into the sea. This pretty much explains the whole idea, that since the > location of the key isn't known precisely, then it could theoritically > reappear some time later somewhere else. Not only is it in the FAQ (I really, really should set up a web page), the thread can also be found straddled at: <URL:<A HREF="http://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/1998Q1/msg00154.html">http://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/1998Q1/msg00154.html</A>> > Another good example that springs to mind, is if a player walks into a > village and torches the place. The player could come back a few days later > to find it's just a smouldering ruin and all the people have gone. Come > back a few years later and parts of the village have been rebuilt again. Lazy simulation? I'll let Nathan bring us pearls of wisdom since I haven't actually given it any thought asides from using a pseudo random but cpu expensive simulation. (Imagine running SimCity for X amount of time, just not viable.) For the newbies and people with no long term memory, vaguely relevant archive messages I can find: Population Containers <URL:<A HREF="http://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/1997Q2/msg01362.html">http://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/1997Q2/msg01362.html</A>> How to handle log-outs in a totally dynamic world? <URL:<A HREF="http://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/1998Q2/msg00494.html">http://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/1998Q2/msg00494.html</A>> You may find the follow ups to the above interesting. | Ling Lo _O_O_ Temporary account _______________________________________________ MUD-Dev maillist - MUD-Dev#kanga,nu <A HREF="http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev">http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev</A> </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00141" HREF="msg00141.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The Virtual Ecology</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> "Brandon J. Rickman" <ashes#pc4,zennet.com></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00134" HREF="msg00134.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The Virtual Ecology</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Chris Turner <christ#rd,bbc.co.uk></LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00138.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Re: MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00139.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00134.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The Virtual Ecology</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00141.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The Virtual Ecology</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00137"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00137"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] The Virtual Ecology</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00072" HREF="msg00072.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The Virtual Ecology</A></strong>, Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Thu 29 Jul 1999, 19:49 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00101" HREF="msg00101.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The Virtual Ecology</A></strong>, Par Winzell <a href="mailto:zell#alyx,com">zell#alyx,com</a>, Mon 16 Aug 1999, 18:00 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00128" HREF="msg00128.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The Virtual Ecology</A></strong>, Felix A. Croes <a href="mailto:felix#dworkin,nl">felix#dworkin,nl</a>, Tue 24 Aug 1999, 02:38 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00134" HREF="msg00134.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The Virtual Ecology</A></strong>, Chris Turner <a href="mailto:christ#rd,bbc.co.uk">christ#rd,bbc.co.uk</a>, Wed 25 Aug 1999, 01:30 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00137" HREF="msg00137.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The Virtual Ecology</A></strong>, Ling Lo <a href="mailto:ling#frost,slimy.com">ling#frost,slimy.com</a>, Wed 25 Aug 1999, 20:21 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00141" HREF="msg00141.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The Virtual Ecology</A></strong>, Brandon J. Rickman <a href="mailto:ashes#pc4,zennet.com">ashes#pc4,zennet.com</a>, Thu 26 Aug 1999, 00:05 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> <LI><strong><A NAME="00073" HREF="msg00073.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The Virtual Ecology</A></strong>, Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Thu 29 Jul 1999, 20:42 GMT </LI> </ul> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00038" HREF="msg00038.html">[MUD-Dev] mud vs. mush membership</A></strong>, Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Fri 23 Jul 1999, 18:03 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00040" HREF="msg00040.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] mud vs. mush membership</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:adam#angel,com">adam#angel,com</a>, Fri 23 Jul 1999, 20:56 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>