<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI? --> <!--X-From-R13: [nggurj [vunyl <qvnoybNorfg.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:36:28 -0700 --> <!--X-Message-Id: Pine.BSF.4.10.9909131602520.25008-100000#shell9,ba.best.com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: 37de05ff.1023463725#mail,airmail.net --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monste</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:diablo#best,com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00305.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00307.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00294.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00329.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00306">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00306">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00306">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Matthew Mihaly <<A HREF="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:12:15 -0700 (PDT)</LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu">mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, Dundee wrote: > > Now see, since there's no such animal as non-consensual PvP combat in > Quake, I wouldn't call the players 'PKs' at at... I guess I would say that since PK stands for player-killing, and since player-killing means the killing of players, that PK stands for any killing of players. You could even apply it to a mob (that dirty PKing giant mouse! Let's get 'im!), though I don't se anyone bothering. Furthermore, I have been killed against my will in Quake before. I used to want to just log on and play around with the grappling hook (I couldn't ever figure out how to get it in the single-player game). Non-consensual means just what it says. I didn't consent to being killed. You can make an argument about implicit consent because Quake allows for player-killing (it's erroneous and rather undefendable to talk about the purpose of a game. A game has no purpose. It's just a bunch of bits and bytes. Purpose is applied by the user.), but by that argument, any game that allows for player-killing that hasn't been explicitly agreed to can be said to carry an implied contract of acceptance. > I only see at as undesirable in games in which you aren't supposeed to be > doing it, (or aren't supposed to be doing it in the manner or degree to > which you are doing it, maybe). The paintball in the mall example - it's > fine as long as the shoppers know to expect that there. In other words, > it's fine if it's consensual. Which is all I was saying. I've never been to a mud where detailed rules about what to expect were laid out, just like I've never been to a mall where detailed rules as to what to expect are laid out. Go to a mall, ask people to define, in detail, _exactly_ what they expect, in totality, from a mall, and you will get many many different answers. Same goes for any mud. So to say it's fine as long as the shopper knows what to expect supposes that somehow you've managed to mystically embody the exact same expectations in each shopper/user. That's not possible really. There mere existence one person who does not expect the same thing demonstrates that it's a matter of perspective as to what is considered to be in the realm of expected behavior. > So we don't get text MUD players. For the most part we get ex-UO players > that were driven off by hoards of mass-murdering PiMpMaStA bands and ex-EQ > players that were driven off by boredom (or players that are both). Ok, those PiMpMaStA punks are worth banning. I'm definitely with you there. I'm continually tempted to just out and out delete anyone under 16, or anyone whose behavior is worth of someone under 16. > But I think the more complex the system becomes, the less likely it is that > the other players trying to defeat you will result in a challenging > experience. They'll maximize their chance of victory and minimize their > chance of defeat to the point where it's more like the killer GM of 8th > grade, "That's it! You guys are all dead!" Naah. That only holds true for simple systems where the amount of eq you have determines who wins. --matt _______________________________________________ MUD-Dev maillist - MUD-Dev#kanga,nu <A HREF="http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev">http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev</A> </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00329" HREF="msg00329.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> J C Lawrence <claw#varesearch,com></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00294" HREF="msg00294.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> SkeptAck#antisocial,com (Dundee)</LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00305.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI?</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00307.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The Best Guy on the Mud Thing</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00294.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00329.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00306"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00306"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00267" HREF="msg00267.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>, Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Sat 11 Sep 1999, 02:29 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00270" HREF="msg00270.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Sun 12 Sep 1999, 21:06 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00273" HREF="msg00273.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monsterAI?</A></strong>, Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Mon 13 Sep 1999, 17:51 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00294" HREF="msg00294.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>, Dundee <a href="mailto:SkeptAck#antisocial,com">SkeptAck#antisocial,com</a>, Mon 13 Sep 1999, 17:52 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00306" HREF="msg00306.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>, Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Tue 14 Sep 1999, 17:36 GMT <LI><strong><A NAME="00329" HREF="msg00329.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>, J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#varesearch,com">claw#varesearch,com</a>, Thu 16 Sep 1999, 06:34 GMT </LI> </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00291" HREF="msg00291.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:adam#angel,com">adam#angel,com</a>, Mon 13 Sep 1999, 22:22 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00297" HREF="msg00297.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monsterAI?</A></strong>, Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Tue 14 Sep 1999, 01:17 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> <LI><strong><A NAME="00288" HREF="msg00288.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>, Chris Turner <a href="mailto:christ#rd,bbc.co.uk">christ#rd,bbc.co.uk</a>, Mon 13 Sep 1999, 17:52 GMT </LI> </ul> </ul> </ul> </ul> </ul> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>