<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 -->
<!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Containing automation? -->
<!--X-From-R13: Qnyvona Fverfvnf Rnexybpx <pnyvonaNqnexybpx.pbz> -->
<!--X-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 03:13:28 -0700 -->
<!--X-Message-Id: 4.1.19990810023113.00962420#pop,darklock.com -->
<!--X-Content-Type: text/plain -->
<!--X-Reference: 4.1.19990726095445.009fc2b0#pop,darklock.com -->
<!--X-Reference: Pine.SOL.3.96.990808185715.14253C-100000@sun-cc203 -->
<!--X-Head-End-->
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Containing automation?</title>
<!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" -->
<link rev="made" href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">
</head>
<body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff"
text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000">
<font size="+4" color="#804040">
<strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong>
</font>
<br>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
<br clear=all><hr>
<!--X-Body-Begin-->
<!--X-User-Header-->
<!--X-User-Header-End-->
<!--X-TopPNI-->
Date:
[ <a href="msg00083.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg00086.html">Next</a>
]
Thread:
[ <a href="msg00083.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg00022.html">Next</a>
]
Index:
[ <A HREF="author.html#00084">Author</A>
| <A HREF="#00084">Date</A>
| <A HREF="thread.html#00084">Thread</A>
]
<!--X-TopPNI-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-->
<!--X-Subject-Header-Begin-->
<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Containing automation?</H1>
<HR>
<!--X-Subject-Header-End-->
<!--X-Head-of-Message-->
<UL>
<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Containing automation?</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Caliban Tiresias Darklock <<A HREF="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 03:12:29 -0700</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu">mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu</A></LI>
</UL>
<!--X-Head-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin-->
<HR>
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End-->
<!--X-Body-of-Message-->
<PRE>
On 09:33 PM 8/8/99 +0100, I personally witnessed Ling jumping up to say:
>On Mon, 26 Jul 1999, Caliban Tiresias Darklock wrote:
>
>> >> We've discussed a change in which we would split the available devices
>into
>> >> "hardware" and "software" devices, with some devices needing both
hardware
>> >> and software, but I'm holding off on this concept for the moment
>because it
>> >> may be too complex for people to understand.
>> >
>> >How about all devices are hardware things but can be augmented with the
>> >addition of software. Or maybe have software that uses devices in novel
>> >ways...
>>
>> The recalibration idea actually led to this thought, since it seems
>
>Odd but untrue, I wrote the above paragraphs in reverse order. Maybe my
>mind made the connections before I figured what was happening.
No, no, no. I was talking about where *I* got the idea for splitting
devices into hardware and software. I wouldn't presume to tell you where
*your* ideas come from.
>> While a laser battery or missile platform is obviously hardware, the
>> targeting of such a device is software. While it seems like a good idea in
>> theory, it may just be too much for most players to grasp.
>
>I wasn't thinking of software as in scripting. Just as another game item
>to be bought, sold and bartered.
So was I. Scripting only entered the picture as an example of why I don't
want to get into defining the SW/HW boundary right now -- because when you
label something "software", people will expect to be able to write it.
Consider for a moment that players can currently choose from over 500
devices. This is a tremendous area of difficulty for most new players, and
I would like to make things easier on them. If I add the further complexity
of some number of software devices which are installed in a different place
and have different effects and are necessary to the proper operation of
these 500 devices in various ways, that doesn't make things any easier. It
makes them harder. A *lot* harder.
>> Likewise, to many players it may seem intuitive that if you can *buy*
>> software, you can *write* software.
>
>If software means scripting, yep. Otherwise, no.
But it doesn't matter what software means in the game context. Software is
a set of instructions for the computer. When I buy software and put it in
the computer, I'm providing it a set of instructions. I *should* by all
rights be able to give it new instructions, no matter what the mechanism --
whether it's a scripting language, a "custom build" application process
through a GM, or a "Computer Programming" skill coupled with some sort of
game system.
I don't want to provide such a mechanism. Of any sort. There must therefore
be a COMPELLING reason *why*. I haven't come up with an effective one yet
(i.e. one that I, as a player, would find more satisfying than "because I
said so").
>You can't really do
>much if all software did was give a +1 modifier.
See the computer programming systems in FASA's Shadowrun, in which programs
do pretty much that... and can still be written by player characters. It's
not a question of scripting so much as it is a question of people wanting
to do something because it makes sense that they could do it, when the
requirements of the game dictate that they can't.
-----
| Caliban Tiresias Darklock caliban#darklock,com
| Darklock Communications <A HREF="http://www.darklock.com/">http://www.darklock.com/</A>
| U L T I M A T E U N I V E R S E I S N O T D E A D
| 774577496C6C6E457645727355626D4974H -=CABAL::3146=-
_______________________________________________
MUD-Dev maillist - MUD-Dev#kanga,nu
<A HREF="http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev">http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev</A>
</PRE>
<!--X-Body-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-End-->
<!--X-Follow-Ups-->
<HR>
<!--X-Follow-Ups-End-->
<!--X-References-->
<UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>:
<UL>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00055" HREF="msg00055.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Containing automation?</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Caliban Tiresias Darklock <caliban#darklock,com></LI></UL></LI>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00083" HREF="msg00083.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Containing automation?</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Ling <K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk></LI></UL></LI>
</UL></LI></UL>
<!--X-References-End-->
<!--X-BotPNI-->
<UL>
<LI>Prev by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00083.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Containing automation?</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00086.html">[MUD-Dev] question about tile-based games</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Prev by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00083.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Containing automation?</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00022.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Containing automation?</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Index(es):
<UL>
<LI><A HREF="index.html#00084"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI>
<LI><A HREF="thread.html#00084"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
<!--X-BotPNI-End-->
<!--X-User-Footer-->
<!--X-User-Footer-End-->
<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Containing automation?</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00047" HREF="msg00047.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Containing automation?</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Sun 25 Jul 1999, 10:23 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00050" HREF="msg00050.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Containing automation?</A></strong>,
Ling <a href="mailto:K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk">K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk</a>, Mon 26 Jul 1999, 16:49 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00055" HREF="msg00055.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Containing automation?</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Mon 26 Jul 1999, 17:51 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00083" HREF="msg00083.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Containing automation?</A></strong>,
Ling <a href="mailto:K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk">K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk</a>, Mon 09 Aug 1999, 16:58 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00084" HREF="msg00084.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Containing automation?</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Tue 10 Aug 1999, 10:13 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00022" HREF="msg00022.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Containing automation?</A></strong>,
Timothy O'Neill Dang <a href="mailto:timothy#nmia,com">timothy#nmia,com</a>, Thu 22 Jul 1999, 21:00 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00035" HREF="msg00035.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Containing automation?</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Fri 23 Jul 1999, 01:02 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00010" HREF="msg00010.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Containing automation?</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Wed 21 Jul 1999, 14:38 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00011" HREF="msg00011.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Containing automation?</A></strong>,
Greg Miller <a href="mailto:gmiller#classic-games,com">gmiller#classic-games,com</a>, Wed 21 Jul 1999, 16:28 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
</ul>
<hr>
<center>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
</center>
<hr>
</body>
</html>