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<H1>Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: <A HREF="mailto:SkeptAck#antisocial,com">SkeptAck#antisocial,com</A> (Dundee)</LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:04:00 GMT</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu">mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
On Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:56:16 -0700 (PDT), Matthew Mihaly <diablo#best,com>
wrote:
> > On Thu, 9 Sep 1999 02:31:25 -0400, Travis Casey <efindel#io,com> wrote:
> >
> > > It is possible to do player-vs-player scenarios in table-top RPGs; I've
> > > run them before. There are published adventures built around p-v-p
> > PKing doesn't exist outside of MUD'dom. If you get PK'd in the ol' weekly
> > tabletop D&D game, then someone doesn't come back next week - either the PK
> > or you.
> I'm not really sure I follow your logic. We're talking about PK in muds,
I was responding to "It is possible to do player-vs-player scenarios in
table-top RPGs; ".
Basically just to say, That Isn't PKing.
And by PKing I mean only, "non-consensual pvp combat".
Generally I see people use "PvP" to mean consensual combat, and "PK" to
mean non-consensual combat. But by all means, if you have a problem with
those terms, I'll write out the long version each time.
> not table top games (where, as you point out, it doesn't really happen).
> I, personally, don't like any distinction made between consensual and
> non-consensual PK,
Well, there is a distinction whether you like it or not. Consensual combat
is great fun for both parties. Non-consensual combat is not.
Also, non-consensual combat will get you kicked off my mud. Consensual
combat is fine-n-dandy.
Hard to believe we can make that distinction if such a distinction doesn't
exist...
> PvP is player vs. player. It does not in any way imply combat, though it very well may
> include combat) simply does not allow players to experience the same range
> of emotions that real PK does.
Likewise, going to a paintball game and shooting other paintball players
doesn't allow for the same range of emotions as, say, going to the mall and
shooting people with my paintball gun. You should see how emotional they
get. The mall should thank me for making their shopping experience
non-boring.
Oddly enough, though, they just don't appreciate what a good pk can do for
an otherwise boring mall.
> of course this heightens emotions, but nothing gets emotions going as well
> as being PK'd or generally messed with unintentionally.
Oh it's intentional, but I think you mean "without the victims consent".
Undoubtedly, that'll spark some emotion. Not any good emotions, but what
the heck, eh?
And in any case, it still says nothing about the sorts of people who have
fun at other people expense. If you think it's great fun to be mean to
people, then there *is* something wrong with you.
They aren't the sorts of people that I want to hang with, nor subject my
other users to. If I just wanted to jack with my players then I'd wander
around and kill them willy nilly myself, zero-out their hard-earned skills,
take their kewl lewt, etc. That'd really make their blood boil.
Some sort of war could be fun: structured PvP combat. But random mugging
is just worthless. It's impossible to have any amount of it without the
entire game revolving around it. And if you *want* your entire game to
revolve around it, then that's fine too... but then there's nothing
non-consensual about the combat there then, since everyone knew that's what
the whole MUD was all about when they logged in.
People get disgusted with PKers when they login to a MUD that *claims* it
isn't all about PKing, that there's more to it than that, and then it turns
out that, no, it's all about PKing after all. Also invariably, if
unrestricted PKing is allowed, then it's all about PKing.
Well, except the PKs like that sort of environment. Target-rich, I think
they call it.
--
<A HREF="http://dundee.uong.com/">http://dundee.uong.com/</A>
_______________________________________________
MUD-Dev maillist - MUD-Dev#kanga,nu
<A HREF="http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev">http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev</A>
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<li><strong><A NAME="00288" HREF="msg00288.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Chris Turner <christ#rd,bbc.co.uk></li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00263" HREF="msg00263.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Adam Wiggins <adam#angel,com></li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00262" HREF="msg00262.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Matthew Mihaly <diablo#best,com></li></ul>
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<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Matthew Mihaly <diablo#best,com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
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<LI><strong><A NAME="00261" HREF="msg00261.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Fri 10 Sep 1999, 23:26 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00274" HREF="msg00274.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI?</A></strong>,
Mik Clarke <a href="mailto:mikclrk#ibm,net">mikclrk#ibm,net</a>, Mon 13 Sep 1999, 17:56 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00295" HREF="msg00295.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers andmonster AI?</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Mon 13 Sep 1999, 22:25 GMT
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<LI><strong><A NAME="00241" HREF="msg00241.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Fri 10 Sep 1999, 01:09 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00251" HREF="msg00251.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>,
Dundee <a href="mailto:SkeptAck#antisocial,com">SkeptAck#antisocial,com</a>, Fri 10 Sep 1999, 21:47 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00262" HREF="msg00262.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Sat 11 Sep 1999, 00:34 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00263" HREF="msg00263.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:adam#angel,com">adam#angel,com</a>, Sat 11 Sep 1999, 00:34 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00267" HREF="msg00267.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Sat 11 Sep 1999, 02:29 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00270" HREF="msg00270.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Sun 12 Sep 1999, 21:06 GMT
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