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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when.</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when.</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "Travis S. Casey" <<A HREF="mailto:efindel#io,com">efindel#io,com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 14:37:01 -0600 (CST)</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
On Mon, 4 Jan 1999, Jon A. Lambert wrote:
> On 29 Dec 98, Till Eulenspiegel wrote:
> Skill systems keyed off of experience point pools have levels determined by
> the player expenditure. For instance in Rolemaster, I can spend 3 development
> points (generated from an experience point pool) to increase my climbing skill
> by 5%. The level system here is implicit in the use of measuring skills on the
> percent scale of 0-100. Someone with a 55% climbing skill is really a level
> 55 climber. They may also have a 25% or level 25 longsword skill. Hit points
> in this system are based on racial/species body types and advanced via a body
> development skill.
I'd hardly call this a "level-based system" however -- if your definition
is this broad, then *any* system which uses numbers to represent
characters can be called a level-based system. IMHO, that makes the term
so broad as to be meaningless.
> The games Gurps and Warhammer have what I would call skill trees. Experience
> is still pooled but character development must follow a branch-like path. In
> the Gurps spell system one must learn prerequisite spells before learning more
> advanced spells. In Warhammer, skills, special abilities and spells are
> picked up while moving through a tree-like structure of professions.
GURPS has a spell tree, if you're using the most commonly used of its
magic systems (GURPS actually has several magic systems). However, its
skill system more closely fits your description of a skill web.
> The question is does such a system place a much higher emphasis on the
> player's ability rather than their game character? Is the character's
> in-game ability a more direct reflection of the players ability to _solve_
> and/or otherwise optimize the skill web? Can such a game become more an
> arcade game of the mental sort (chess) rather than the physical sort (Donkey
> Kong)?
That depends on how the skill web in question works -- remember, a web is
simply a pattern in which skills are related; there's room for a great
deal of variation in what those webs affect.
Also, in some cases, it may be desirable for a skill web to make some
combinations of skills more optimal than others -- the key is to try to
design a skill web which reflects the way you want your game world to
work.
> Oh oh, yet another silly law...
>
> "All skill use based systems are experience point based. It just takes a
> pedant and a magnifying glass to find them." - J Lambert.
>
> Hehe. Experience points are merely abstractions of skill usage.
I'll definitely agree that this law is silly. :-)
> One has to take measure of a game's FUN factor from time to time.
> And different audiences (and implementors) use different yardsticks to
> measure fun.
Definitely. I've long said, "Build the game that *you* would like to
play." Chances are that someone else will like it too, and it's much
easier than trying to figure out what other people would like.
--
|\ _,,,---,,_ Travis S. Casey <efindel#io,com>
ZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ No one agrees with me. Not even me.
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_)
</PRE>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00036" HREF="msg00036.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when.</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "Jon A. Lambert" <jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00016" HREF="msg00016.html">[MUD-Dev] Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when.</A></strong>,
Till Eulenspiegel <a href="mailto:choke#sirius,com">choke#sirius,com</a>, Tue 29 Dec 1998, 20:58 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00021" HREF="msg00021.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when.</A></strong>,
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#io,com">efindel#io,com</a>, Sat 02 Jan 1999, 20:00 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00033" HREF="msg00033.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when.</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#kanga,nu">claw#kanga,nu</a>, Mon 04 Jan 1999, 06:37 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00036" HREF="msg00036.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when.</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Mon 04 Jan 1999, 19:37 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00039" HREF="msg00039.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when.</A></strong>,
Travis S. Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#io,com">efindel#io,com</a>, Mon 04 Jan 1999, 20:37 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00015" HREF="msg00015.html">[MUD-Dev] More Laws</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Tue 29 Dec 1998, 08:28 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00017" HREF="msg00017.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: More Laws</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#kanga,nu">claw#kanga,nu</a>, Wed 30 Dec 1998, 06:15 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00019" HREF="msg00019.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: More Laws</A></strong>,
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#io,com">efindel#io,com</a>, Sat 02 Jan 1999, 19:19 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00013" HREF="msg00013.html">[MUD-Dev] MUD Design doc - Combat</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Tue 29 Dec 1998, 08:28 GMT
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
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