--- poster: Drizzt subject: Socket group date: Thu Dec 15 16:04:11 1994 Since all the discussion of bad Tmi-2 1.2 DNS systems, Intermud, etc, it might be nice to make a socket group.. something like mud.socket.dns, or mud.socket.interboard would both be nice.. :0 -- Drizzt --- poster: Guardian subject: TMI bulletin boards date: Wed Dec 14 11:06:43 1994 I suggest that, once this thing is relatively well debugged, all or most of the bulletin boards be converted into separate newsgroups. This will allow people reading posts to sit in their workroom and not have it interrupted by conversations, people walking by, etc. And people who wanna sit in the main area and talk can do so without having to figure out which five people are reading/posting and should be ignored. --- poster: Mobydick subject: This newsgroup date: Mon Dec 12 17:22:30 1994 This group carries discussion of what new newsgroups should be created on TMI-2 and what existing groups can be removed. At this time the mechanism by which new groups can be created hasn't been determined: some discussion of ways to organize that would also be appropriate for this group. Mobydick --- poster: Abigail subject: >I agree date: Sat Dec 17 18:12:59 1994 Well, I think intermud news is very nice, but it shouldn't be hard to go "all the way", and offer written articles to the local inews programs. In that case the usual usenet infrastructure takes care of the transport, and new sites can easily hop in. Then you can also read rec.games.mud.* from within the mud. No need for separate sockets between muds. (I've been pondering to make a newsreader/poster for DGD and get/post in the usenet groups.) Abigail --- poster: Drizzt subject: I agree date: Sat Dec 17 13:32:21 1994 I agree.. I think that stuff for mud related issues should go in mud.*.. this way, players, etc can have groups such as players.*, etc.. such mudgroups would be like mud.newsreaders.rn mud.socket.ftpd, etc.. even though these names are longer than newsreaders.rn it is more organized into the smaller groups.. i think we should have as FEW main groups as possible.. -- Drizzt --- poster: Leto subject: which new groups to add..... date: Sat Dec 17 12:37:51 1994 I would suggest to keeping the same logical order as IdeaExchange, so we can merge the two together when we get intermud news off the ground. Then ie.* and tmi-2/* could be local groups and all others cold be shared. Leto --- poster: Mobydick subject: bulletin board date: Thu Dec 15 23:55:23 1994 It shouldn't be very hard to rig a bulletin board to query the news_server.c and produce the usual result. Access to post might be a bit trickier but should not be impossible. I'll provide a directory to anyone who wants to work on this but doesn't have anywhere else to do it. Moby --- poster: Digitizer subject: news and boards... date: Thu Dec 15 22:14:42 1994 How about a nice bulletin board interface for news? I mean,. it's the TMI tradition to use bulletin boards for gathering information, and while here, I tend to prefer it over a Usenet-ish look and feel. If I want to read newsgroups, I can go to Idea Exchange; while here I'd like the option of getting my information the "old-fashioned" way - from a bulletin board. Realistically speaking, it would be possible to route newsgroups through the bulletin board interface that TMI uses...keeping the "world-at-large" which can be explored, and the newsgroups, in line might prove a little tricky, but I think it would be possible. What I'm afraid of seeing is two staggeringly different info systems (from an interface perspective) continuing, and redundant posts getting placed all over the place, or missing something important because of not having the time to read both news arenas. Somehow, I'd like to see the systems merge and blend together somewhat; the bboard front end, for instance, and the news backend. Just a few random thougts... Digitizer --- poster: Dana subject: >>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 03:13:31 1994 Leto writes: > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > on IdeaExchange. > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > Leto Agreed. Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something inflammatory from it either. -dana --- poster: Leto subject: >>I agree date: Tue Dec 20 18:58:07 1994 Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts on IdeaExchange. Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless regions is a Bad Thin IMHO Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: >I agree date: Sat Dec 17 18:12:59 1994 Well, I think intermud news is very nice, but it shouldn't be hard to go "all the way", and offer written articles to the local inews programs. In that case the usual usenet infrastructure takes care of the transport, and new sites can easily hop in. Then you can also read rec.games.mud.* from within the mud. No need for separate sockets between muds. (I've been pondering to make a newsreader/poster for DGD and get/post in the usenet groups.) Abigail --- poster: Drizzt subject: I agree date: Sat Dec 17 13:32:21 1994 I agree.. I think that stuff for mud related issues should go in mud.*.. this way, players, etc can have groups such as players.*, etc.. such mudgroups would be like mud.newsreaders.rn mud.socket.ftpd, etc.. even though these names are longer than newsreaders.rn it is more organized into the smaller groups.. i think we should have as FEW main groups as possible.. -- Drizzt --- poster: Leto subject: which new groups to add..... date: Sat Dec 17 12:37:51 1994 I would suggest to keeping the same logical order as IdeaExchange, so we can merge the two together when we get intermud news off the ground. Then ie.* and tmi-2/* could be local groups and all others cold be shared. Leto --- poster: Mobydick subject: bulletin board date: Thu Dec 15 23:55:23 1994 It shouldn't be very hard to rig a bulletin board to query the news_server.c and produce the usual result. Access to post might be a bit trickier but should not be impossible. I'll provide a directory to anyone who wants to work on this but doesn't have anywhere else to do it. Moby --- poster: Digitizer subject: news and boards... date: Thu Dec 15 22:14:42 1994 How about a nice bulletin board interface for news? I mean,. it's the TMI tradition to use bulletin boards for gathering information, and while here, I tend to prefer it over a Usenet-ish look and feel. If I want to read newsgroups, I can go to Idea Exchange; while here I'd like the option of getting my information the "old-fashioned" way - from a bulletin board. Realistically speaking, it would be possible to route newsgroups through the bulletin board interface that TMI uses...keeping the "world-at-large" which can be explored, and the newsgroups, in line might prove a little tricky, but I think it would be possible. What I'm afraid of seeing is two staggeringly different info systems (from an interface perspective) continuing, and redundant posts getting placed all over the place, or missing something important because of not having the time to read both news arenas. Somehow, I'd like to see the systems merge and blend together somewhat; the bboard front end, for instance, and the news backend. Just a few random thougts... Digitizer --- poster: Leto subject: Re: Abigail date: Thu Dec 22 19:15:37 1994 To reply to Abigails remark concerning 'other muds who might want to access all of Usenet' I'm working on a nntp.c which will allow communication with your local Usenet nntp server. What groups you want to feed is your problem. What groups you want to serve is your problem. What I will not implement myself is a 'piggyback' system to use Usenet for mud groups. I already have the TCP port listening, and I am working on adding a UDP port too, for those muds not using Amylaar. It's obvious that if you want to incorporate Usenet groups, that you might as well make the mud groups and local (your mud only groups) in the same format. I haven't looked at the rn code, but I assume it's easy to tie those two together. Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: *sigh* date: Thu Dec 22 18:13:29 1994 Let's try again to post a complete note...... (Fifth time or so.) BTW, is there any way to remove an incomplete, never wanted to post note? Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] :z > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. > :> I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with : > something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then :> i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. : > :i So you have an idiotic system admin, and you won't want people post on non-mud specific groups. Good, then don't. But is that a reason why other muds shouldn't get the groups they want? Why develop a protocol where muds can only chose from a handful of groups in stead of one where muds can choose from 5000 groups. > > As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should > stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written > yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs > and everything else. > > > -dana So, what did the people do who wrote A-news, B-news, C-news, NNTP etc do? I think a lot more people have fun with the services provided by those people than all mudlibs combined. Usenet reaches an estimated number of 40 million readers. I doubt the total number of people who ever visited a mud is even close. But if you like to stay in a small circle, that's fine. But I still don't see any reason to spend time to develop a protocol which provides muds with a dozen groups, when with less effort muds can choose any combination of about 5000 groups to carry in their mud. Personally I would have more fun in developping a news system which can provide a very Tolkienique mud with alt.fan.tolkien, a sf mud with rec.arts.science-fiction and rec.tv.startrek, or whatever a mud wants, then redesigning usenet on microlevel, with a handful of groups. Abigail --- poster: Abigail subject: Mud news. date: Thu Dec 22 18:09:27 1994 THIRD time to try to post something in here. First ed bugs out during saving, then the dumb editor suddenly quits. Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] :z > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. > :> I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with : > something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then :> i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. : > :i So you have an idiotic system admin, and you won't want people post on non-mud specific groups. Good, then don't. But is that a reason why other muds shouldn't get the groups they want? Why develop a protocol where muds can only chose from a handful of groups in stead of one where muds can choose from 5000 groups. > > As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should > stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written > yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs > and everything else. > > > -dana So, what did the people do who wrote A-news, B-news, C-news, NNTP etc do? I think a lot more people have fun with the services provided by those people than all mudlib writes combined. Usenet has reaches an estimated number of 40 million readers. I doubt the total number of people who ever visited a mud is even close. But if you like to stay in a small circle, that's fine. But I still don't see any reason to spend time to develop a protocol which provides muds with a dozen groups, when with less effort muds can choose any combination of about 5000 groups to carry in their mud. Personally I would have more fun in developping a news system which can provide --- poster: Abigail subject: date: Thu Dec 22 18:04:42 1994 Trying to recreate a written note after ed bugged out during saving: Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. --- poster: Dana subject: >>>>>I agree date: Thu Dec 22 12:09:58 1994 Abigail writes: > Dana writes: > > Leto writes: > > > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > > > on IdeaExchange. > > > > > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > > > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > > > > > Leto > > > > Agreed. > > > > Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else > > is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed > > through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the > > idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something > > inflammatory from it either. > > > > -dana > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > Abigail Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't the most civil of individuals? I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs and everything else. -dana --- poster: Abigail subject: >>>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 20:55:05 1994 Dana writes: > Leto writes: > > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > > on IdeaExchange. > > > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > > > Leto > > Agreed. > > Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else > is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed > through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the > idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something > inflammatory from it either. > > -dana What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. Abigail --- poster: Dana subject: >>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 03:13:31 1994 Leto writes: > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > on IdeaExchange. > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > Leto Agreed. Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something inflammatory from it either. -dana --- poster: Leto subject: >>I agree date: Tue Dec 20 18:58:07 1994 Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts on IdeaExchange. Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless regions is a Bad Thin IMHO Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: >I agree date: Sat Dec 17 18:12:59 1994 Well, I think intermud news is very nice, but it shouldn't be hard to go "all the way", and offer written articles to the local inews programs. In that case the usual usenet infrastructure takes care of the transport, and new sites can easily hop in. Then you can also read rec.games.mud.* from within the mud. No need for separate sockets between muds. (I've been pondering to make a newsreader/poster for DGD and get/post in the usenet groups.) Abigail --- poster: Drizzt subject: I agree date: Sat Dec 17 13:32:21 1994 I agree.. I think that stuff for mud related issues should go in mud.*.. this way, players, etc can have groups such as players.*, etc.. such mudgroups would be like mud.newsreaders.rn mud.socket.ftpd, etc.. even though these names are longer than newsreaders.rn it is more organized into the smaller groups.. i think we should have as FEW main groups as possible.. -- Drizzt --- poster: Leto subject: which new groups to add..... date: Sat Dec 17 12:37:51 1994 I would suggest to keeping the same logical order as IdeaExchange, so we can merge the two together when we get intermud news off the ground. Then ie.* and tmi-2/* could be local groups and all others cold be shared. Leto --- poster: Mobydick subject: bulletin board date: Thu Dec 15 23:55:23 1994 It shouldn't be very hard to rig a bulletin board to query the news_server.c and produce the usual result. Access to post might be a bit trickier but should not be impossible. I'll provide a directory to anyone who wants to work on this but doesn't have anywhere else to do it. Moby --- poster: Digitizer subject: news and boards... date: Thu Dec 15 22:14:42 1994 How about a nice bulletin board interface for news? I mean,. it's the TMI tradition to use bulletin boards for gathering information, and while here, I tend to prefer it over a Usenet-ish look and feel. If I want to read newsgroups, I can go to Idea Exchange; while here I'd like the option of getting my information the "old-fashioned" way - from a bulletin board. Realistically speaking, it would be possible to route newsgroups through the bulletin board interface that TMI uses...keeping the "world-at-large" which can be explored, and the newsgroups, in line might prove a little tricky, but I think it would be possible. What I'm afraid of seeing is two staggeringly different info systems (from an interface perspective) continuing, and redundant posts getting placed all over the place, or missing something important because of not having the time to read both news arenas. Somehow, I'd like to see the systems merge and blend together somewhat; the bboard front end, for instance, and the news backend. Just a few random thougts... Digitizer --- poster: Dana subject: >Mud news. date: Tue Dec 27 11:06:56 1994 What you're talking about is designing a mud type OS. That, i agree, would be riotous fun. However, we are discussing MUDs here. Games. I don't really think that your average player enters a mud for the express pleasure of reading rec.fish. I could be wrong, of course. The number of people that Usenet reaches completely irrelevant. We're interested in muds. I agree with you - the fun you get out of playing with IP protocols vastly outweighs mud ones - but, once again, we are designing MUD protocols. There's a distinct difference. -dana --- poster: Dana subject: > date: Tue Dec 27 11:03:26 1994 Abigail writes: > Trying to recreate a written note after ed bugged out during saving: > Dana writes: > > Abigail writes: > > [ Snip ] > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > Abigail > > > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > > the most civil of individuals? > :a > > Sure I have. But I'm still here. That's the point. Would you be if that creator had spammed usenet? I'm not willing to take that risk. -dana --- poster: Leto subject: Re: Abigail date: Thu Dec 22 19:15:37 1994 To reply to Abigails remark concerning 'other muds who might want to access all of Usenet' I'm working on a nntp.c which will allow communication with your local Usenet nntp server. What groups you want to feed is your problem. What groups you want to serve is your problem. What I will not implement myself is a 'piggyback' system to use Usenet for mud groups. I already have the TCP port listening, and I am working on adding a UDP port too, for those muds not using Amylaar. It's obvious that if you want to incorporate Usenet groups, that you might as well make the mud groups and local (your mud only groups) in the same format. I haven't looked at the rn code, but I assume it's easy to tie those two together. Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: *sigh* date: Thu Dec 22 18:13:29 1994 Let's try again to post a complete note...... (Fifth time or so.) BTW, is there any way to remove an incomplete, never wanted to post note? Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] :z > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. > :> I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with : > something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then :> i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. : > :i So you have an idiotic system admin, and you won't want people post on non-mud specific groups. Good, then don't. But is that a reason why other muds shouldn't get the groups they want? Why develop a protocol where muds can only chose from a handful of groups in stead of one where muds can choose from 5000 groups. > > As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should > stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written > yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs > and everything else. > > > -dana So, what did the people do who wrote A-news, B-news, C-news, NNTP etc do? I think a lot more people have fun with the services provided by those people than all mudlibs combined. Usenet reaches an estimated number of 40 million readers. I doubt the total number of people who ever visited a mud is even close. But if you like to stay in a small circle, that's fine. But I still don't see any reason to spend time to develop a protocol which provides muds with a dozen groups, when with less effort muds can choose any combination of about 5000 groups to carry in their mud. Personally I would have more fun in developping a news system which can provide a very Tolkienique mud with alt.fan.tolkien, a sf mud with rec.arts.science-fiction and rec.tv.startrek, or whatever a mud wants, then redesigning usenet on microlevel, with a handful of groups. Abigail --- poster: Abigail subject: Mud news. date: Thu Dec 22 18:09:27 1994 THIRD time to try to post something in here. First ed bugs out during saving, then the dumb editor suddenly quits. Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] :z > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. > :> I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with : > something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then :> i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. : > :i So you have an idiotic system admin, and you won't want people post on non-mud specific groups. Good, then don't. But is that a reason why other muds shouldn't get the groups they want? Why develop a protocol where muds can only chose from a handful of groups in stead of one where muds can choose from 5000 groups. > > As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should > stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written > yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs > and everything else. > > > -dana So, what did the people do who wrote A-news, B-news, C-news, NNTP etc do? I think a lot more people have fun with the services provided by those people than all mudlib writes combined. Usenet has reaches an estimated number of 40 million readers. I doubt the total number of people who ever visited a mud is even close. But if you like to stay in a small circle, that's fine. But I still don't see any reason to spend time to develop a protocol which provides muds with a dozen groups, when with less effort muds can choose any combination of about 5000 groups to carry in their mud. Personally I would have more fun in developping a news system which can provide --- poster: Abigail subject: date: Thu Dec 22 18:04:42 1994 Trying to recreate a written note after ed bugged out during saving: Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. --- poster: Dana subject: >>>>>I agree date: Thu Dec 22 12:09:58 1994 Abigail writes: > Dana writes: > > Leto writes: > > > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > > > on IdeaExchange. > > > > > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > > > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > > > > > Leto > > > > Agreed. > > > > Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else > > is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed > > through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the > > idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something > > inflammatory from it either. > > > > -dana > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > Abigail Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't the most civil of individuals? I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs and everything else. -dana --- poster: Abigail subject: >>>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 20:55:05 1994 Dana writes: > Leto writes: > > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > > on IdeaExchange. > > > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > > > Leto > > Agreed. > > Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else > is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed > through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the > idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something > inflammatory from it either. > > -dana What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. Abigail --- poster: Dana subject: >>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 03:13:31 1994 Leto writes: > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > on IdeaExchange. > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > Leto Agreed. Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something inflammatory from it either. -dana --- poster: Leto subject: >>I agree date: Tue Dec 20 18:58:07 1994 Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts on IdeaExchange. Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless regions is a Bad Thin IMHO Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: >I agree date: Sat Dec 17 18:12:59 1994 Well, I think intermud news is very nice, but it shouldn't be hard to go "all the way", and offer written articles to the local inews programs. In that case the usual usenet infrastructure takes care of the transport, and new sites can easily hop in. Then you can also read rec.games.mud.* from within the mud. No need for separate sockets between muds. (I've been pondering to make a newsreader/poster for DGD and get/post in the usenet groups.) Abigail --- poster: Drizzt subject: I agree date: Sat Dec 17 13:32:21 1994 I agree.. I think that stuff for mud related issues should go in mud.*.. this way, players, etc can have groups such as players.*, etc.. such mudgroups would be like mud.newsreaders.rn mud.socket.ftpd, etc.. even though these names are longer than newsreaders.rn it is more organized into the smaller groups.. i think we should have as FEW main groups as possible.. -- Drizzt --- poster: Leto subject: which new groups to add..... date: Sat Dec 17 12:37:51 1994 I would suggest to keeping the same logical order as IdeaExchange, so we can merge the two together when we get intermud news off the ground. Then ie.* and tmi-2/* could be local groups and all others cold be shared. Leto --- poster: Mobydick subject: bulletin board date: Thu Dec 15 23:55:23 1994 It shouldn't be very hard to rig a bulletin board to query the news_server.c and produce the usual result. Access to post might be a bit trickier but should not be impossible. I'll provide a directory to anyone who wants to work on this but doesn't have anywhere else to do it. Moby --- poster: Digitizer subject: news and boards... date: Thu Dec 15 22:14:42 1994 How about a nice bulletin board interface for news? I mean,. it's the TMI tradition to use bulletin boards for gathering information, and while here, I tend to prefer it over a Usenet-ish look and feel. If I want to read newsgroups, I can go to Idea Exchange; while here I'd like the option of getting my information the "old-fashioned" way - from a bulletin board. Realistically speaking, it would be possible to route newsgroups through the bulletin board interface that TMI uses...keeping the "world-at-large" which can be explored, and the newsgroups, in line might prove a little tricky, but I think it would be possible. What I'm afraid of seeing is two staggeringly different info systems (from an interface perspective) continuing, and redundant posts getting placed all over the place, or missing something important because of not having the time to read both news arenas. Somehow, I'd like to see the systems merge and blend together somewhat; the bboard front end, for instance, and the news backend. Just a few random thougts... Digitizer --- poster: Dana subject: >Mud news. date: Tue Dec 27 11:06:56 1994 What you're talking about is designing a mud type OS. That, i agree, would be riotous fun. However, we are discussing MUDs here. Games. I don't really think that your average player enters a mud for the express pleasure of reading rec.fish. I could be wrong, of course. The number of people that Usenet reaches completely irrelevant. We're interested in muds. I agree with you - the fun you get out of playing with IP protocols vastly outweighs mud ones - but, once again, we are designing MUD protocols. There's a distinct difference. -dana --- poster: Dana subject: > date: Tue Dec 27 11:03:26 1994 Abigail writes: > Trying to recreate a written note after ed bugged out during saving: > Dana writes: > > Abigail writes: > > [ Snip ] > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > Abigail > > > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > > the most civil of individuals? > :a > > Sure I have. But I'm still here. That's the point. Would you be if that creator had spammed usenet? I'm not willing to take that risk. -dana --- poster: Leto subject: Re: Abigail date: Thu Dec 22 19:15:37 1994 To reply to Abigails remark concerning 'other muds who might want to access all of Usenet' I'm working on a nntp.c which will allow communication with your local Usenet nntp server. What groups you want to feed is your problem. What groups you want to serve is your problem. What I will not implement myself is a 'piggyback' system to use Usenet for mud groups. I already have the TCP port listening, and I am working on adding a UDP port too, for those muds not using Amylaar. It's obvious that if you want to incorporate Usenet groups, that you might as well make the mud groups and local (your mud only groups) in the same format. I haven't looked at the rn code, but I assume it's easy to tie those two together. Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: *sigh* date: Thu Dec 22 18:13:29 1994 Let's try again to post a complete note...... (Fifth time or so.) BTW, is there any way to remove an incomplete, never wanted to post note? Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] :z > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. > :> I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with : > something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then :> i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. : > :i So you have an idiotic system admin, and you won't want people post on non-mud specific groups. Good, then don't. But is that a reason why other muds shouldn't get the groups they want? Why develop a protocol where muds can only chose from a handful of groups in stead of one where muds can choose from 5000 groups. > > As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should > stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written > yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs > and everything else. > > > -dana So, what did the people do who wrote A-news, B-news, C-news, NNTP etc do? I think a lot more people have fun with the services provided by those people than all mudlibs combined. Usenet reaches an estimated number of 40 million readers. I doubt the total number of people who ever visited a mud is even close. But if you like to stay in a small circle, that's fine. But I still don't see any reason to spend time to develop a protocol which provides muds with a dozen groups, when with less effort muds can choose any combination of about 5000 groups to carry in their mud. Personally I would have more fun in developping a news system which can provide a very Tolkienique mud with alt.fan.tolkien, a sf mud with rec.arts.science-fiction and rec.tv.startrek, or whatever a mud wants, then redesigning usenet on microlevel, with a handful of groups. Abigail --- poster: Abigail subject: Mud news. date: Thu Dec 22 18:09:27 1994 THIRD time to try to post something in here. First ed bugs out during saving, then the dumb editor suddenly quits. Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] :z > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. > :> I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with : > something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then :> i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. : > :i So you have an idiotic system admin, and you won't want people post on non-mud specific groups. Good, then don't. But is that a reason why other muds shouldn't get the groups they want? Why develop a protocol where muds can only chose from a handful of groups in stead of one where muds can choose from 5000 groups. > > As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should > stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written > yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs > and everything else. > > > -dana So, what did the people do who wrote A-news, B-news, C-news, NNTP etc do? I think a lot more people have fun with the services provided by those people than all mudlib writes combined. Usenet has reaches an estimated number of 40 million readers. I doubt the total number of people who ever visited a mud is even close. But if you like to stay in a small circle, that's fine. But I still don't see any reason to spend time to develop a protocol which provides muds with a dozen groups, when with less effort muds can choose any combination of about 5000 groups to carry in their mud. Personally I would have more fun in developping a news system which can provide --- poster: Abigail subject: date: Thu Dec 22 18:04:42 1994 Trying to recreate a written note after ed bugged out during saving: Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. --- poster: Dana subject: >>>>>I agree date: Thu Dec 22 12:09:58 1994 Abigail writes: > Dana writes: > > Leto writes: > > > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > > > on IdeaExchange. > > > > > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > > > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > > > > > Leto > > > > Agreed. > > > > Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else > > is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed > > through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the > > idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something > > inflammatory from it either. > > > > -dana > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > Abigail Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't the most civil of individuals? I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs and everything else. -dana --- poster: Abigail subject: >>>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 20:55:05 1994 Dana writes: > Leto writes: > > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > > on IdeaExchange. > > > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > > > Leto > > Agreed. > > Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else > is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed > through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the > idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something > inflammatory from it either. > > -dana What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. Abigail --- poster: Dana subject: >>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 03:13:31 1994 Leto writes: > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > on IdeaExchange. > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > Leto Agreed. Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something inflammatory from it either. -dana --- poster: Leto subject: >>I agree date: Tue Dec 20 18:58:07 1994 Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts on IdeaExchange. Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless regions is a Bad Thin IMHO Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: >I agree date: Sat Dec 17 18:12:59 1994 Well, I think intermud news is very nice, but it shouldn't be hard to go "all the way", and offer written articles to the local inews programs. In that case the usual usenet infrastructure takes care of the transport, and new sites can easily hop in. Then you can also read rec.games.mud.* from within the mud. No need for separate sockets between muds. (I've been pondering to make a newsreader/poster for DGD and get/post in the usenet groups.) Abigail --- poster: Drizzt subject: I agree date: Sat Dec 17 13:32:21 1994 I agree.. I think that stuff for mud related issues should go in mud.*.. this way, players, etc can have groups such as players.*, etc.. such mudgroups would be like mud.newsreaders.rn mud.socket.ftpd, etc.. even though these names are longer than newsreaders.rn it is more organized into the smaller groups.. i think we should have as FEW main groups as possible.. -- Drizzt --- poster: Leto subject: which new groups to add..... date: Sat Dec 17 12:37:51 1994 I would suggest to keeping the same logical order as IdeaExchange, so we can merge the two together when we get intermud news off the ground. Then ie.* and tmi-2/* could be local groups and all others cold be shared. Leto --- poster: Mobydick subject: bulletin board date: Thu Dec 15 23:55:23 1994 It shouldn't be very hard to rig a bulletin board to query the news_server.c and produce the usual result. Access to post might be a bit trickier but should not be impossible. I'll provide a directory to anyone who wants to work on this but doesn't have anywhere else to do it. Moby --- poster: Digitizer subject: news and boards... date: Thu Dec 15 22:14:42 1994 How about a nice bulletin board interface for news? I mean,. it's the TMI tradition to use bulletin boards for gathering information, and while here, I tend to prefer it over a Usenet-ish look and feel. If I want to read newsgroups, I can go to Idea Exchange; while here I'd like the option of getting my information the "old-fashioned" way - from a bulletin board. Realistically speaking, it would be possible to route newsgroups through the bulletin board interface that TMI uses...keeping the "world-at-large" which can be explored, and the newsgroups, in line might prove a little tricky, but I think it would be possible. What I'm afraid of seeing is two staggeringly different info systems (from an interface perspective) continuing, and redundant posts getting placed all over the place, or missing something important because of not having the time to read both news arenas. Somehow, I'd like to see the systems merge and blend together somewhat; the bboard front end, for instance, and the news backend. Just a few random thougts... Digitizer --- poster: Dana subject: >Mud news. date: Tue Dec 27 11:06:56 1994 What you're talking about is designing a mud type OS. That, i agree, would be riotous fun. However, we are discussing MUDs here. Games. I don't really think that your average player enters a mud for the express pleasure of reading rec.fish. I could be wrong, of course. The number of people that Usenet reaches completely irrelevant. We're interested in muds. I agree with you - the fun you get out of playing with IP protocols vastly outweighs mud ones - but, once again, we are designing MUD protocols. There's a distinct difference. -dana --- poster: Dana subject: > date: Tue Dec 27 11:03:26 1994 Abigail writes: > Trying to recreate a written note after ed bugged out during saving: > Dana writes: > > Abigail writes: > > [ Snip ] > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > Abigail > > > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > > the most civil of individuals? > :a > > Sure I have. But I'm still here. That's the point. Would you be if that creator had spammed usenet? I'm not willing to take that risk. -dana --- poster: Leto subject: Re: Abigail date: Thu Dec 22 19:15:37 1994 To reply to Abigails remark concerning 'other muds who might want to access all of Usenet' I'm working on a nntp.c which will allow communication with your local Usenet nntp server. What groups you want to feed is your problem. What groups you want to serve is your problem. What I will not implement myself is a 'piggyback' system to use Usenet for mud groups. I already have the TCP port listening, and I am working on adding a UDP port too, for those muds not using Amylaar. It's obvious that if you want to incorporate Usenet groups, that you might as well make the mud groups and local (your mud only groups) in the same format. I haven't looked at the rn code, but I assume it's easy to tie those two together. Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: *sigh* date: Thu Dec 22 18:13:29 1994 Let's try again to post a complete note...... (Fifth time or so.) BTW, is there any way to remove an incomplete, never wanted to post note? Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] :z > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. > :> I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with : > something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then :> i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. : > :i So you have an idiotic system admin, and you won't want people post on non-mud specific groups. Good, then don't. But is that a reason why other muds shouldn't get the groups they want? Why develop a protocol where muds can only chose from a handful of groups in stead of one where muds can choose from 5000 groups. > > As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should > stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written > yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs > and everything else. > > > -dana So, what did the people do who wrote A-news, B-news, C-news, NNTP etc do? I think a lot more people have fun with the services provided by those people than all mudlibs combined. Usenet reaches an estimated number of 40 million readers. I doubt the total number of people who ever visited a mud is even close. But if you like to stay in a small circle, that's fine. But I still don't see any reason to spend time to develop a protocol which provides muds with a dozen groups, when with less effort muds can choose any combination of about 5000 groups to carry in their mud. Personally I would have more fun in developping a news system which can provide a very Tolkienique mud with alt.fan.tolkien, a sf mud with rec.arts.science-fiction and rec.tv.startrek, or whatever a mud wants, then redesigning usenet on microlevel, with a handful of groups. Abigail --- poster: Abigail subject: Mud news. date: Thu Dec 22 18:09:27 1994 THIRD time to try to post something in here. First ed bugs out during saving, then the dumb editor suddenly quits. Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] :z > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. > :> I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with : > something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then :> i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. : > :i So you have an idiotic system admin, and you won't want people post on non-mud specific groups. Good, then don't. But is that a reason why other muds shouldn't get the groups they want? Why develop a protocol where muds can only chose from a handful of groups in stead of one where muds can choose from 5000 groups. > > As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should > stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written > yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs > and everything else. > > > -dana So, what did the people do who wrote A-news, B-news, C-news, NNTP etc do? I think a lot more people have fun with the services provided by those people than all mudlib writes combined. Usenet has reaches an estimated number of 40 million readers. I doubt the total number of people who ever visited a mud is even close. But if you like to stay in a small circle, that's fine. But I still don't see any reason to spend time to develop a protocol which provides muds with a dozen groups, when with less effort muds can choose any combination of about 5000 groups to carry in their mud. Personally I would have more fun in developping a news system which can provide --- poster: Abigail subject: date: Thu Dec 22 18:04:42 1994 Trying to recreate a written note after ed bugged out during saving: Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. --- poster: Dana subject: >>>>>I agree date: Thu Dec 22 12:09:58 1994 Abigail writes: > Dana writes: > > Leto writes: > > > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > > > on IdeaExchange. > > > > > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > > > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > > > > > Leto > > > > Agreed. > > > > Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else > > is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed > > through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the > > idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something > > inflammatory from it either. > > > > -dana > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > Abigail Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't the most civil of individuals? I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs and everything else. -dana --- poster: Abigail subject: >>>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 20:55:05 1994 Dana writes: > Leto writes: > > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > > on IdeaExchange. > > > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > > > Leto > > Agreed. > > Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else > is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed > through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the > idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something > inflammatory from it either. > > -dana What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. Abigail --- poster: Dana subject: >>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 03:13:31 1994 Leto writes: > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > on IdeaExchange. > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > Leto Agreed. Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something inflammatory from it either. -dana --- poster: Leto subject: >>I agree date: Tue Dec 20 18:58:07 1994 Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts on IdeaExchange. Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless regions is a Bad Thin IMHO Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: >I agree date: Sat Dec 17 18:12:59 1994 Well, I think intermud news is very nice, but it shouldn't be hard to go "all the way", and offer written articles to the local inews programs. In that case the usual usenet infrastructure takes care of the transport, and new sites can easily hop in. Then you can also read rec.games.mud.* from within the mud. No need for separate sockets between muds. (I've been pondering to make a newsreader/poster for DGD and get/post in the usenet groups.) Abigail --- poster: Drizzt subject: I agree date: Sat Dec 17 13:32:21 1994 I agree.. I think that stuff for mud related issues should go in mud.*.. this way, players, etc can have groups such as players.*, etc.. such mudgroups would be like mud.newsreaders.rn mud.socket.ftpd, etc.. even though these names are longer than newsreaders.rn it is more organized into the smaller groups.. i think we should have as FEW main groups as possible.. -- Drizzt --- poster: Leto subject: which new groups to add..... date: Sat Dec 17 12:37:51 1994 I would suggest to keeping the same logical order as IdeaExchange, so we can merge the two together when we get intermud news off the ground. Then ie.* and tmi-2/* could be local groups and all others cold be shared. Leto --- poster: Mobydick subject: bulletin board date: Thu Dec 15 23:55:23 1994 It shouldn't be very hard to rig a bulletin board to query the news_server.c and produce the usual result. Access to post might be a bit trickier but should not be impossible. I'll provide a directory to anyone who wants to work on this but doesn't have anywhere else to do it. Moby --- poster: Digitizer subject: news and boards... date: Thu Dec 15 22:14:42 1994 How about a nice bulletin board interface for news? I mean,. it's the TMI tradition to use bulletin boards for gathering information, and while here, I tend to prefer it over a Usenet-ish look and feel. If I want to read newsgroups, I can go to Idea Exchange; while here I'd like the option of getting my information the "old-fashioned" way - from a bulletin board. Realistically speaking, it would be possible to route newsgroups through the bulletin board interface that TMI uses...keeping the "world-at-large" which can be explored, and the newsgroups, in line might prove a little tricky, but I think it would be possible. What I'm afraid of seeing is two staggeringly different info systems (from an interface perspective) continuing, and redundant posts getting placed all over the place, or missing something important because of not having the time to read both news arenas. Somehow, I'd like to see the systems merge and blend together somewhat; the bboard front end, for instance, and the news backend. Just a few random thougts... Digitizer --- poster: Dana subject: >Mud news. date: Tue Dec 27 11:06:56 1994 What you're talking about is designing a mud type OS. That, i agree, would be riotous fun. However, we are discussing MUDs here. Games. I don't really think that your average player enters a mud for the express pleasure of reading rec.fish. I could be wrong, of course. The number of people that Usenet reaches completely irrelevant. We're interested in muds. I agree with you - the fun you get out of playing with IP protocols vastly outweighs mud ones - but, once again, we are designing MUD protocols. There's a distinct difference. -dana --- poster: Dana subject: > date: Tue Dec 27 11:03:26 1994 Abigail writes: > Trying to recreate a written note after ed bugged out during saving: > Dana writes: > > Abigail writes: > > [ Snip ] > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > Abigail > > > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > > the most civil of individuals? > :a > > Sure I have. But I'm still here. That's the point. Would you be if that creator had spammed usenet? I'm not willing to take that risk. -dana --- poster: Leto subject: Re: Abigail date: Thu Dec 22 19:15:37 1994 To reply to Abigails remark concerning 'other muds who might want to access all of Usenet' I'm working on a nntp.c which will allow communication with your local Usenet nntp server. What groups you want to feed is your problem. What groups you want to serve is your problem. What I will not implement myself is a 'piggyback' system to use Usenet for mud groups. I already have the TCP port listening, and I am working on adding a UDP port too, for those muds not using Amylaar. It's obvious that if you want to incorporate Usenet groups, that you might as well make the mud groups and local (your mud only groups) in the same format. I haven't looked at the rn code, but I assume it's easy to tie those two together. Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: *sigh* date: Thu Dec 22 18:13:29 1994 Let's try again to post a complete note...... (Fifth time or so.) BTW, is there any way to remove an incomplete, never wanted to post note? Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] :z > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. > :> I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with : > something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then :> i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. : > :i So you have an idiotic system admin, and you won't want people post on non-mud specific groups. Good, then don't. But is that a reason why other muds shouldn't get the groups they want? Why develop a protocol where muds can only chose from a handful of groups in stead of one where muds can choose from 5000 groups. > > As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should > stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written > yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs > and everything else. > > > -dana So, what did the people do who wrote A-news, B-news, C-news, NNTP etc do? I think a lot more people have fun with the services provided by those people than all mudlibs combined. Usenet reaches an estimated number of 40 million readers. I doubt the total number of people who ever visited a mud is even close. But if you like to stay in a small circle, that's fine. But I still don't see any reason to spend time to develop a protocol which provides muds with a dozen groups, when with less effort muds can choose any combination of about 5000 groups to carry in their mud. Personally I would have more fun in developping a news system which can provide a very Tolkienique mud with alt.fan.tolkien, a sf mud with rec.arts.science-fiction and rec.tv.startrek, or whatever a mud wants, then redesigning usenet on microlevel, with a handful of groups. Abigail --- poster: Abigail subject: Mud news. date: Thu Dec 22 18:09:27 1994 THIRD time to try to post something in here. First ed bugs out during saving, then the dumb editor suddenly quits. Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] :z > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. > :> I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with : > something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then :> i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. : > :i So you have an idiotic system admin, and you won't want people post on non-mud specific groups. Good, then don't. But is that a reason why other muds shouldn't get the groups they want? Why develop a protocol where muds can only chose from a handful of groups in stead of one where muds can choose from 5000 groups. > > As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should > stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written > yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs > and everything else. > > > -dana So, what did the people do who wrote A-news, B-news, C-news, NNTP etc do? I think a lot more people have fun with the services provided by those people than all mudlib writes combined. Usenet has reaches an estimated number of 40 million readers. I doubt the total number of people who ever visited a mud is even close. But if you like to stay in a small circle, that's fine. But I still don't see any reason to spend time to develop a protocol which provides muds with a dozen groups, when with less effort muds can choose any combination of about 5000 groups to carry in their mud. Personally I would have more fun in developping a news system which can provide --- poster: Abigail subject: date: Thu Dec 22 18:04:42 1994 Trying to recreate a written note after ed bugged out during saving: Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. --- poster: Dana subject: >>>>>I agree date: Thu Dec 22 12:09:58 1994 Abigail writes: > Dana writes: > > Leto writes: > > > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > > > on IdeaExchange. > > > > > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > > > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > > > > > Leto > > > > Agreed. > > > > Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else > > is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed > > through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the > > idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something > > inflammatory from it either. > > > > -dana > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > Abigail Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't the most civil of individuals? I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs and everything else. -dana --- poster: Abigail subject: >>>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 20:55:05 1994 Dana writes: > Leto writes: > > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > > on IdeaExchange. > > > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > > > Leto > > Agreed. > > Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else > is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed > through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the > idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something > inflammatory from it either. > > -dana What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. Abigail --- poster: Dana subject: >>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 03:13:31 1994 Leto writes: > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > on IdeaExchange. > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > Leto Agreed. Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something inflammatory from it either. -dana --- poster: Leto subject: >>I agree date: Tue Dec 20 18:58:07 1994 Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts on IdeaExchange. Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless regions is a Bad Thin IMHO Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: >I agree date: Sat Dec 17 18:12:59 1994 Well, I think intermud news is very nice, but it shouldn't be hard to go "all the way", and offer written articles to the local inews programs. In that case the usual usenet infrastructure takes care of the transport, and new sites can easily hop in. Then you can also read rec.games.mud.* from within the mud. No need for separate sockets between muds. (I've been pondering to make a newsreader/poster for DGD and get/post in the usenet groups.) Abigail --- poster: Drizzt subject: I agree date: Sat Dec 17 13:32:21 1994 I agree.. I think that stuff for mud related issues should go in mud.*.. this way, players, etc can have groups such as players.*, etc.. such mudgroups would be like mud.newsreaders.rn mud.socket.ftpd, etc.. even though these names are longer than newsreaders.rn it is more organized into the smaller groups.. i think we should have as FEW main groups as possible.. -- Drizzt --- poster: Leto subject: which new groups to add..... date: Sat Dec 17 12:37:51 1994 I would suggest to keeping the same logical order as IdeaExchange, so we can merge the two together when we get intermud news off the ground. Then ie.* and tmi-2/* could be local groups and all others cold be shared. Leto --- poster: Mobydick subject: bulletin board date: Thu Dec 15 23:55:23 1994 It shouldn't be very hard to rig a bulletin board to query the news_server.c and produce the usual result. Access to post might be a bit trickier but should not be impossible. I'll provide a directory to anyone who wants to work on this but doesn't have anywhere else to do it. Moby --- poster: Digitizer subject: news and boards... date: Thu Dec 15 22:14:42 1994 How about a nice bulletin board interface for news? I mean,. it's the TMI tradition to use bulletin boards for gathering information, and while here, I tend to prefer it over a Usenet-ish look and feel. If I want to read newsgroups, I can go to Idea Exchange; while here I'd like the option of getting my information the "old-fashioned" way - from a bulletin board. Realistically speaking, it would be possible to route newsgroups through the bulletin board interface that TMI uses...keeping the "world-at-large" which can be explored, and the newsgroups, in line might prove a little tricky, but I think it would be possible. What I'm afraid of seeing is two staggeringly different info systems (from an interface perspective) continuing, and redundant posts getting placed all over the place, or missing something important because of not having the time to read both news arenas. Somehow, I'd like to see the systems merge and blend together somewhat; the bboard front end, for instance, and the news backend. Just a few random thougts... Digitizer --- poster: Dana subject: >Mud news. date: Tue Dec 27 11:06:56 1994 What you're talking about is designing a mud type OS. That, i agree, would be riotous fun. However, we are discussing MUDs here. Games. I don't really think that your average player enters a mud for the express pleasure of reading rec.fish. I could be wrong, of course. The number of people that Usenet reaches completely irrelevant. We're interested in muds. I agree with you - the fun you get out of playing with IP protocols vastly outweighs mud ones - but, once again, we are designing MUD protocols. There's a distinct difference. -dana --- poster: Dana subject: > date: Tue Dec 27 11:03:26 1994 Abigail writes: > Trying to recreate a written note after ed bugged out during saving: > Dana writes: > > Abigail writes: > > [ Snip ] > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > Abigail > > > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > > the most civil of individuals? > :a > > Sure I have. But I'm still here. That's the point. Would you be if that creator had spammed usenet? I'm not willing to take that risk. -dana --- poster: Leto subject: Re: Abigail date: Thu Dec 22 19:15:37 1994 To reply to Abigails remark concerning 'other muds who might want to access all of Usenet' I'm working on a nntp.c which will allow communication with your local Usenet nntp server. What groups you want to feed is your problem. What groups you want to serve is your problem. What I will not implement myself is a 'piggyback' system to use Usenet for mud groups. I already have the TCP port listening, and I am working on adding a UDP port too, for those muds not using Amylaar. It's obvious that if you want to incorporate Usenet groups, that you might as well make the mud groups and local (your mud only groups) in the same format. I haven't looked at the rn code, but I assume it's easy to tie those two together. Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: *sigh* date: Thu Dec 22 18:13:29 1994 Let's try again to post a complete note...... (Fifth time or so.) BTW, is there any way to remove an incomplete, never wanted to post note? Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] :z > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. > :> I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with : > something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then :> i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. : > :i So you have an idiotic system admin, and you won't want people post on non-mud specific groups. Good, then don't. But is that a reason why other muds shouldn't get the groups they want? Why develop a protocol where muds can only chose from a handful of groups in stead of one where muds can choose from 5000 groups. > > As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should > stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written > yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs > and everything else. > > > -dana So, what did the people do who wrote A-news, B-news, C-news, NNTP etc do? I think a lot more people have fun with the services provided by those people than all mudlibs combined. Usenet reaches an estimated number of 40 million readers. I doubt the total number of people who ever visited a mud is even close. But if you like to stay in a small circle, that's fine. But I still don't see any reason to spend time to develop a protocol which provides muds with a dozen groups, when with less effort muds can choose any combination of about 5000 groups to carry in their mud. Personally I would have more fun in developping a news system which can provide a very Tolkienique mud with alt.fan.tolkien, a sf mud with rec.arts.science-fiction and rec.tv.startrek, or whatever a mud wants, then redesigning usenet on microlevel, with a handful of groups. Abigail --- poster: Abigail subject: Mud news. date: Thu Dec 22 18:09:27 1994 THIRD time to try to post something in here. First ed bugs out during saving, then the dumb editor suddenly quits. Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] :z > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. > :> I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with : > something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then :> i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. : > :i So you have an idiotic system admin, and you won't want people post on non-mud specific groups. Good, then don't. But is that a reason why other muds shouldn't get the groups they want? Why develop a protocol where muds can only chose from a handful of groups in stead of one where muds can choose from 5000 groups. > > As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should > stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written > yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs > and everything else. > > > -dana So, what did the people do who wrote A-news, B-news, C-news, NNTP etc do? I think a lot more people have fun with the services provided by those people than all mudlib writes combined. Usenet has reaches an estimated number of 40 million readers. I doubt the total number of people who ever visited a mud is even close. But if you like to stay in a small circle, that's fine. But I still don't see any reason to spend time to develop a protocol which provides muds with a dozen groups, when with less effort muds can choose any combination of about 5000 groups to carry in their mud. Personally I would have more fun in developping a news system which can provide --- poster: Abigail subject: date: Thu Dec 22 18:04:42 1994 Trying to recreate a written note after ed bugged out during saving: Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. --- poster: Dana subject: >>>>>I agree date: Thu Dec 22 12:09:58 1994 Abigail writes: > Dana writes: > > Leto writes: > > > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > > > on IdeaExchange. > > > > > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > > > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > > > > > Leto > > > > Agreed. > > > > Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else > > is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed > > through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the > > idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something > > inflammatory from it either. > > > > -dana > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > Abigail Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't the most civil of individuals? I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs and everything else. -dana --- poster: Abigail subject: >>>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 20:55:05 1994 Dana writes: > Leto writes: > > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > > on IdeaExchange. > > > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > > > Leto > > Agreed. > > Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else > is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed > through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the > idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something > inflammatory from it either. > > -dana What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. Abigail --- poster: Dana subject: >>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 03:13:31 1994 Leto writes: > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > on IdeaExchange. > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > Leto Agreed. Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something inflammatory from it either. -dana --- poster: Leto subject: >>I agree date: Tue Dec 20 18:58:07 1994 Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts on IdeaExchange. Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless regions is a Bad Thin IMHO Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: >I agree date: Sat Dec 17 18:12:59 1994 Well, I think intermud news is very nice, but it shouldn't be hard to go "all the way", and offer written articles to the local inews programs. In that case the usual usenet infrastructure takes care of the transport, and new sites can easily hop in. Then you can also read rec.games.mud.* from within the mud. No need for separate sockets between muds. (I've been pondering to make a newsreader/poster for DGD and get/post in the usenet groups.) Abigail --- poster: Drizzt subject: I agree date: Sat Dec 17 13:32:21 1994 I agree.. I think that stuff for mud related issues should go in mud.*.. this way, players, etc can have groups such as players.*, etc.. such mudgroups would be like mud.newsreaders.rn mud.socket.ftpd, etc.. even though these names are longer than newsreaders.rn it is more organized into the smaller groups.. i think we should have as FEW main groups as possible.. -- Drizzt --- poster: Leto subject: which new groups to add..... date: Sat Dec 17 12:37:51 1994 I would suggest to keeping the same logical order as IdeaExchange, so we can merge the two together when we get intermud news off the ground. Then ie.* and tmi-2/* could be local groups and all others cold be shared. Leto --- poster: Mobydick subject: bulletin board date: Thu Dec 15 23:55:23 1994 It shouldn't be very hard to rig a bulletin board to query the news_server.c and produce the usual result. Access to post might be a bit trickier but should not be impossible. I'll provide a directory to anyone who wants to work on this but doesn't have anywhere else to do it. Moby --- poster: Digitizer subject: news and boards... date: Thu Dec 15 22:14:42 1994 How about a nice bulletin board interface for news? I mean,. it's the TMI tradition to use bulletin boards for gathering information, and while here, I tend to prefer it over a Usenet-ish look and feel. If I want to read newsgroups, I can go to Idea Exchange; while here I'd like the option of getting my information the "old-fashioned" way - from a bulletin board. Realistically speaking, it would be possible to route newsgroups through the bulletin board interface that TMI uses...keeping the "world-at-large" which can be explored, and the newsgroups, in line might prove a little tricky, but I think it would be possible. What I'm afraid of seeing is two staggeringly different info systems (from an interface perspective) continuing, and redundant posts getting placed all over the place, or missing something important because of not having the time to read both news arenas. Somehow, I'd like to see the systems merge and blend together somewhat; the bboard front end, for instance, and the news backend. Just a few random thougts... Digitizer --- poster: Dana subject: >Mud news. date: Tue Dec 27 11:06:56 1994 What you're talking about is designing a mud type OS. That, i agree, would be riotous fun. However, we are discussing MUDs here. Games. I don't really think that your average player enters a mud for the express pleasure of reading rec.fish. I could be wrong, of course. The number of people that Usenet reaches completely irrelevant. We're interested in muds. I agree with you - the fun you get out of playing with IP protocols vastly outweighs mud ones - but, once again, we are designing MUD protocols. There's a distinct difference. -dana --- poster: Dana subject: > date: Tue Dec 27 11:03:26 1994 Abigail writes: > Trying to recreate a written note after ed bugged out during saving: > Dana writes: > > Abigail writes: > > [ Snip ] > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > Abigail > > > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > > the most civil of individuals? > :a > > Sure I have. But I'm still here. That's the point. Would you be if that creator had spammed usenet? I'm not willing to take that risk. -dana --- poster: Leto subject: Re: Abigail date: Thu Dec 22 19:15:37 1994 To reply to Abigails remark concerning 'other muds who might want to access all of Usenet' I'm working on a nntp.c which will allow communication with your local Usenet nntp server. What groups you want to feed is your problem. What groups you want to serve is your problem. What I will not implement myself is a 'piggyback' system to use Usenet for mud groups. I already have the TCP port listening, and I am working on adding a UDP port too, for those muds not using Amylaar. It's obvious that if you want to incorporate Usenet groups, that you might as well make the mud groups and local (your mud only groups) in the same format. I haven't looked at the rn code, but I assume it's easy to tie those two together. Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: *sigh* date: Thu Dec 22 18:13:29 1994 Let's try again to post a complete note...... (Fifth time or so.) BTW, is there any way to remove an incomplete, never wanted to post note? Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] :z > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. > :> I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with : > something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then :> i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. : > :i So you have an idiotic system admin, and you won't want people post on non-mud specific groups. Good, then don't. But is that a reason why other muds shouldn't get the groups they want? Why develop a protocol where muds can only chose from a handful of groups in stead of one where muds can choose from 5000 groups. > > As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should > stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written > yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs > and everything else. > > > -dana So, what did the people do who wrote A-news, B-news, C-news, NNTP etc do? I think a lot more people have fun with the services provided by those people than all mudlibs combined. Usenet reaches an estimated number of 40 million readers. I doubt the total number of people who ever visited a mud is even close. But if you like to stay in a small circle, that's fine. But I still don't see any reason to spend time to develop a protocol which provides muds with a dozen groups, when with less effort muds can choose any combination of about 5000 groups to carry in their mud. Personally I would have more fun in developping a news system which can provide a very Tolkienique mud with alt.fan.tolkien, a sf mud with rec.arts.science-fiction and rec.tv.startrek, or whatever a mud wants, then redesigning usenet on microlevel, with a handful of groups. Abigail --- poster: Abigail subject: Mud news. date: Thu Dec 22 18:09:27 1994 THIRD time to try to post something in here. First ed bugs out during saving, then the dumb editor suddenly quits. Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] :z > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. > :> I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with : > something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then :> i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. : > :i So you have an idiotic system admin, and you won't want people post on non-mud specific groups. Good, then don't. But is that a reason why other muds shouldn't get the groups they want? Why develop a protocol where muds can only chose from a handful of groups in stead of one where muds can choose from 5000 groups. > > As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should > stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written > yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs > and everything else. > > > -dana So, what did the people do who wrote A-news, B-news, C-news, NNTP etc do? I think a lot more people have fun with the services provided by those people than all mudlib writes combined. Usenet has reaches an estimated number of 40 million readers. I doubt the total number of people who ever visited a mud is even close. But if you like to stay in a small circle, that's fine. But I still don't see any reason to spend time to develop a protocol which provides muds with a dozen groups, when with less effort muds can choose any combination of about 5000 groups to carry in their mud. Personally I would have more fun in developping a news system which can provide --- poster: Abigail subject: date: Thu Dec 22 18:04:42 1994 Trying to recreate a written note after ed bugged out during saving: Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. --- poster: Dana subject: >>>>>I agree date: Thu Dec 22 12:09:58 1994 Abigail writes: > Dana writes: > > Leto writes: > > > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > > > on IdeaExchange. > > > > > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > > > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > > > > > Leto > > > > Agreed. > > > > Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else > > is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed > > through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the > > idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something > > inflammatory from it either. > > > > -dana > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > Abigail Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't the most civil of individuals? I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs and everything else. -dana --- poster: Abigail subject: >>>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 20:55:05 1994 Dana writes: > Leto writes: > > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > > on IdeaExchange. > > > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > > > Leto > > Agreed. > > Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else > is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed > through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the > idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something > inflammatory from it either. > > -dana What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. Abigail --- poster: Dana subject: >>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 03:13:31 1994 Leto writes: > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > on IdeaExchange. > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > Leto Agreed. Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something inflammatory from it either. -dana --- poster: Leto subject: >>I agree date: Tue Dec 20 18:58:07 1994 Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts on IdeaExchange. Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless regions is a Bad Thin IMHO Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: >I agree date: Sat Dec 17 18:12:59 1994 Well, I think intermud news is very nice, but it shouldn't be hard to go "all the way", and offer written articles to the local inews programs. In that case the usual usenet infrastructure takes care of the transport, and new sites can easily hop in. Then you can also read rec.games.mud.* from within the mud. No need for separate sockets between muds. (I've been pondering to make a newsreader/poster for DGD and get/post in the usenet groups.) Abigail --- poster: Drizzt subject: I agree date: Sat Dec 17 13:32:21 1994 I agree.. I think that stuff for mud related issues should go in mud.*.. this way, players, etc can have groups such as players.*, etc.. such mudgroups would be like mud.newsreaders.rn mud.socket.ftpd, etc.. even though these names are longer than newsreaders.rn it is more organized into the smaller groups.. i think we should have as FEW main groups as possible.. -- Drizzt --- poster: Leto subject: which new groups to add..... date: Sat Dec 17 12:37:51 1994 I would suggest to keeping the same logical order as IdeaExchange, so we can merge the two together when we get intermud news off the ground. Then ie.* and tmi-2/* could be local groups and all others cold be shared. Leto --- poster: Mobydick subject: bulletin board date: Thu Dec 15 23:55:23 1994 It shouldn't be very hard to rig a bulletin board to query the news_server.c and produce the usual result. Access to post might be a bit trickier but should not be impossible. I'll provide a directory to anyone who wants to work on this but doesn't have anywhere else to do it. Moby --- poster: Digitizer subject: news and boards... date: Thu Dec 15 22:14:42 1994 How about a nice bulletin board interface for news? I mean,. it's the TMI tradition to use bulletin boards for gathering information, and while here, I tend to prefer it over a Usenet-ish look and feel. If I want to read newsgroups, I can go to Idea Exchange; while here I'd like the option of getting my information the "old-fashioned" way - from a bulletin board. Realistically speaking, it would be possible to route newsgroups through the bulletin board interface that TMI uses...keeping the "world-at-large" which can be explored, and the newsgroups, in line might prove a little tricky, but I think it would be possible. What I'm afraid of seeing is two staggeringly different info systems (from an interface perspective) continuing, and redundant posts getting placed all over the place, or missing something important because of not having the time to read both news arenas. Somehow, I'd like to see the systems merge and blend together somewhat; the bboard front end, for instance, and the news backend. Just a few random thougts... Digitizer --- poster: Dana subject: >Mud news. date: Tue Dec 27 11:06:56 1994 What you're talking about is designing a mud type OS. That, i agree, would be riotous fun. However, we are discussing MUDs here. Games. I don't really think that your average player enters a mud for the express pleasure of reading rec.fish. I could be wrong, of course. The number of people that Usenet reaches completely irrelevant. We're interested in muds. I agree with you - the fun you get out of playing with IP protocols vastly outweighs mud ones - but, once again, we are designing MUD protocols. There's a distinct difference. -dana --- poster: Dana subject: > date: Tue Dec 27 11:03:26 1994 Abigail writes: > Trying to recreate a written note after ed bugged out during saving: > Dana writes: > > Abigail writes: > > [ Snip ] > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > Abigail > > > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > > the most civil of individuals? > :a > > Sure I have. But I'm still here. That's the point. Would you be if that creator had spammed usenet? I'm not willing to take that risk. -dana --- poster: Leto subject: Re: Abigail date: Thu Dec 22 19:15:37 1994 To reply to Abigails remark concerning 'other muds who might want to access all of Usenet' I'm working on a nntp.c which will allow communication with your local Usenet nntp server. What groups you want to feed is your problem. What groups you want to serve is your problem. What I will not implement myself is a 'piggyback' system to use Usenet for mud groups. I already have the TCP port listening, and I am working on adding a UDP port too, for those muds not using Amylaar. It's obvious that if you want to incorporate Usenet groups, that you might as well make the mud groups and local (your mud only groups) in the same format. I haven't looked at the rn code, but I assume it's easy to tie those two together. Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: *sigh* date: Thu Dec 22 18:13:29 1994 Let's try again to post a complete note...... (Fifth time or so.) BTW, is there any way to remove an incomplete, never wanted to post note? Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] :z > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. > :> I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with : > something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then :> i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. : > :i So you have an idiotic system admin, and you won't want people post on non-mud specific groups. Good, then don't. But is that a reason why other muds shouldn't get the groups they want? Why develop a protocol where muds can only chose from a handful of groups in stead of one where muds can choose from 5000 groups. > > As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should > stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written > yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs > and everything else. > > > -dana So, what did the people do who wrote A-news, B-news, C-news, NNTP etc do? I think a lot more people have fun with the services provided by those people than all mudlibs combined. Usenet reaches an estimated number of 40 million readers. I doubt the total number of people who ever visited a mud is even close. But if you like to stay in a small circle, that's fine. But I still don't see any reason to spend time to develop a protocol which provides muds with a dozen groups, when with less effort muds can choose any combination of about 5000 groups to carry in their mud. Personally I would have more fun in developping a news system which can provide a very Tolkienique mud with alt.fan.tolkien, a sf mud with rec.arts.science-fiction and rec.tv.startrek, or whatever a mud wants, then redesigning usenet on microlevel, with a handful of groups. Abigail --- poster: Abigail subject: Mud news. date: Thu Dec 22 18:09:27 1994 THIRD time to try to post something in here. First ed bugs out during saving, then the dumb editor suddenly quits. Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] :z > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. > :> I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with : > something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then :> i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. : > :i So you have an idiotic system admin, and you won't want people post on non-mud specific groups. Good, then don't. But is that a reason why other muds shouldn't get the groups they want? Why develop a protocol where muds can only chose from a handful of groups in stead of one where muds can choose from 5000 groups. > > As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should > stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written > yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs > and everything else. > > > -dana So, what did the people do who wrote A-news, B-news, C-news, NNTP etc do? I think a lot more people have fun with the services provided by those people than all mudlib writes combined. Usenet has reaches an estimated number of 40 million readers. I doubt the total number of people who ever visited a mud is even close. But if you like to stay in a small circle, that's fine. But I still don't see any reason to spend time to develop a protocol which provides muds with a dozen groups, when with less effort muds can choose any combination of about 5000 groups to carry in their mud. Personally I would have more fun in developping a news system which can provide --- poster: Abigail subject: date: Thu Dec 22 18:04:42 1994 Trying to recreate a written note after ed bugged out during saving: Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. --- poster: Dana subject: >>>>>I agree date: Thu Dec 22 12:09:58 1994 Abigail writes: > Dana writes: > > Leto writes: > > > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > > > on IdeaExchange. > > > > > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > > > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > > > > > Leto > > > > Agreed. > > > > Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else > > is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed > > through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the > > idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something > > inflammatory from it either. > > > > -dana > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > Abigail Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't the most civil of individuals? I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs and everything else. -dana --- poster: Abigail subject: >>>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 20:55:05 1994 Dana writes: > Leto writes: > > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > > on IdeaExchange. > > > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > > > Leto > > Agreed. > > Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else > is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed > through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the > idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something > inflammatory from it either. > > -dana What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. Abigail --- poster: Dana subject: >>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 03:13:31 1994 Leto writes: > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > on IdeaExchange. > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > Leto Agreed. Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something inflammatory from it either. -dana --- poster: Leto subject: >>I agree date: Tue Dec 20 18:58:07 1994 Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts on IdeaExchange. Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless regions is a Bad Thin IMHO Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: >I agree date: Sat Dec 17 18:12:59 1994 Well, I think intermud news is very nice, but it shouldn't be hard to go "all the way", and offer written articles to the local inews programs. In that case the usual usenet infrastructure takes care of the transport, and new sites can easily hop in. Then you can also read rec.games.mud.* from within the mud. No need for separate sockets between muds. (I've been pondering to make a newsreader/poster for DGD and get/post in the usenet groups.) Abigail --- poster: Drizzt subject: I agree date: Sat Dec 17 13:32:21 1994 I agree.. I think that stuff for mud related issues should go in mud.*.. this way, players, etc can have groups such as players.*, etc.. such mudgroups would be like mud.newsreaders.rn mud.socket.ftpd, etc.. even though these names are longer than newsreaders.rn it is more organized into the smaller groups.. i think we should have as FEW main groups as possible.. -- Drizzt --- poster: Leto subject: which new groups to add..... date: Sat Dec 17 12:37:51 1994 I would suggest to keeping the same logical order as IdeaExchange, so we can merge the two together when we get intermud news off the ground. Then ie.* and tmi-2/* could be local groups and all others cold be shared. Leto --- poster: Mobydick subject: bulletin board date: Thu Dec 15 23:55:23 1994 It shouldn't be very hard to rig a bulletin board to query the news_server.c and produce the usual result. Access to post might be a bit trickier but should not be impossible. I'll provide a directory to anyone who wants to work on this but doesn't have anywhere else to do it. Moby --- poster: Digitizer subject: news and boards... date: Thu Dec 15 22:14:42 1994 How about a nice bulletin board interface for news? I mean,. it's the TMI tradition to use bulletin boards for gathering information, and while here, I tend to prefer it over a Usenet-ish look and feel. If I want to read newsgroups, I can go to Idea Exchange; while here I'd like the option of getting my information the "old-fashioned" way - from a bulletin board. Realistically speaking, it would be possible to route newsgroups through the bulletin board interface that TMI uses...keeping the "world-at-large" which can be explored, and the newsgroups, in line might prove a little tricky, but I think it would be possible. What I'm afraid of seeing is two staggeringly different info systems (from an interface perspective) continuing, and redundant posts getting placed all over the place, or missing something important because of not having the time to read both news arenas. Somehow, I'd like to see the systems merge and blend together somewhat; the bboard front end, for instance, and the news backend. Just a few random thougts... Digitizer --- poster: Dana subject: >Mud news. date: Tue Dec 27 11:06:56 1994 What you're talking about is designing a mud type OS. That, i agree, would be riotous fun. However, we are discussing MUDs here. Games. I don't really think that your average player enters a mud for the express pleasure of reading rec.fish. I could be wrong, of course. The number of people that Usenet reaches completely irrelevant. We're interested in muds. I agree with you - the fun you get out of playing with IP protocols vastly outweighs mud ones - but, once again, we are designing MUD protocols. There's a distinct difference. -dana --- poster: Dana subject: > date: Tue Dec 27 11:03:26 1994 Abigail writes: > Trying to recreate a written note after ed bugged out during saving: > Dana writes: > > Abigail writes: > > [ Snip ] > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > Abigail > > > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > > the most civil of individuals? > :a > > Sure I have. But I'm still here. That's the point. Would you be if that creator had spammed usenet? I'm not willing to take that risk. -dana --- poster: Leto subject: Re: Abigail date: Thu Dec 22 19:15:37 1994 To reply to Abigails remark concerning 'other muds who might want to access all of Usenet' I'm working on a nntp.c which will allow communication with your local Usenet nntp server. What groups you want to feed is your problem. What groups you want to serve is your problem. What I will not implement myself is a 'piggyback' system to use Usenet for mud groups. I already have the TCP port listening, and I am working on adding a UDP port too, for those muds not using Amylaar. It's obvious that if you want to incorporate Usenet groups, that you might as well make the mud groups and local (your mud only groups) in the same format. I haven't looked at the rn code, but I assume it's easy to tie those two together. Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: *sigh* date: Thu Dec 22 18:13:29 1994 Let's try again to post a complete note...... (Fifth time or so.) BTW, is there any way to remove an incomplete, never wanted to post note? Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] :z > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. > :> I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with : > something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then :> i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. : > :i So you have an idiotic system admin, and you won't want people post on non-mud specific groups. Good, then don't. But is that a reason why other muds shouldn't get the groups they want? Why develop a protocol where muds can only chose from a handful of groups in stead of one where muds can choose from 5000 groups. > > As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should > stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written > yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs > and everything else. > > > -dana So, what did the people do who wrote A-news, B-news, C-news, NNTP etc do? I think a lot more people have fun with the services provided by those people than all mudlibs combined. Usenet reaches an estimated number of 40 million readers. I doubt the total number of people who ever visited a mud is even close. But if you like to stay in a small circle, that's fine. But I still don't see any reason to spend time to develop a protocol which provides muds with a dozen groups, when with less effort muds can choose any combination of about 5000 groups to carry in their mud. Personally I would have more fun in developping a news system which can provide a very Tolkienique mud with alt.fan.tolkien, a sf mud with rec.arts.science-fiction and rec.tv.startrek, or whatever a mud wants, then redesigning usenet on microlevel, with a handful of groups. Abigail --- poster: Abigail subject: Mud news. date: Thu Dec 22 18:09:27 1994 THIRD time to try to post something in here. First ed bugs out during saving, then the dumb editor suddenly quits. Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] :z > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. > :> I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with : > something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then :> i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. : > :i So you have an idiotic system admin, and you won't want people post on non-mud specific groups. Good, then don't. But is that a reason why other muds shouldn't get the groups they want? Why develop a protocol where muds can only chose from a handful of groups in stead of one where muds can choose from 5000 groups. > > As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should > stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written > yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs > and everything else. > > > -dana So, what did the people do who wrote A-news, B-news, C-news, NNTP etc do? I think a lot more people have fun with the services provided by those people than all mudlib writes combined. Usenet has reaches an estimated number of 40 million readers. I doubt the total number of people who ever visited a mud is even close. But if you like to stay in a small circle, that's fine. But I still don't see any reason to spend time to develop a protocol which provides muds with a dozen groups, when with less effort muds can choose any combination of about 5000 groups to carry in their mud. Personally I would have more fun in developping a news system which can provide --- poster: Abigail subject: date: Thu Dec 22 18:04:42 1994 Trying to recreate a written note after ed bugged out during saving: Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. --- poster: Dana subject: >>>>>I agree date: Thu Dec 22 12:09:58 1994 Abigail writes: > Dana writes: > > Leto writes: > > > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > > > on IdeaExchange. > > > > > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > > > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > > > > > Leto > > > > Agreed. > > > > Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else > > is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed > > through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the > > idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something > > inflammatory from it either. > > > > -dana > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > Abigail Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't the most civil of individuals? I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs and everything else. -dana --- poster: Abigail subject: >>>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 20:55:05 1994 Dana writes: > Leto writes: > > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > > on IdeaExchange. > > > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > > > Leto > > Agreed. > > Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else > is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed > through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the > idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something > inflammatory from it either. > > -dana What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. Abigail --- poster: Dana subject: >>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 03:13:31 1994 Leto writes: > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > on IdeaExchange. > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > Leto Agreed. Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something inflammatory from it either. -dana --- poster: Leto subject: >>I agree date: Tue Dec 20 18:58:07 1994 Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts on IdeaExchange. Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless regions is a Bad Thin IMHO Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: >I agree date: Sat Dec 17 18:12:59 1994 Well, I think intermud news is very nice, but it shouldn't be hard to go "all the way", and offer written articles to the local inews programs. In that case the usual usenet infrastructure takes care of the transport, and new sites can easily hop in. Then you can also read rec.games.mud.* from within the mud. No need for separate sockets between muds. (I've been pondering to make a newsreader/poster for DGD and get/post in the usenet groups.) Abigail --- poster: Drizzt subject: I agree date: Sat Dec 17 13:32:21 1994 I agree.. I think that stuff for mud related issues should go in mud.*.. this way, players, etc can have groups such as players.*, etc.. such mudgroups would be like mud.newsreaders.rn mud.socket.ftpd, etc.. even though these names are longer than newsreaders.rn it is more organized into the smaller groups.. i think we should have as FEW main groups as possible.. -- Drizzt --- poster: Leto subject: which new groups to add..... date: Sat Dec 17 12:37:51 1994 I would suggest to keeping the same logical order as IdeaExchange, so we can merge the two together when we get intermud news off the ground. Then ie.* and tmi-2/* could be local groups and all others cold be shared. Leto --- poster: Mobydick subject: bulletin board date: Thu Dec 15 23:55:23 1994 It shouldn't be very hard to rig a bulletin board to query the news_server.c and produce the usual result. Access to post might be a bit trickier but should not be impossible. I'll provide a directory to anyone who wants to work on this but doesn't have anywhere else to do it. Moby --- poster: Digitizer subject: news and boards... date: Thu Dec 15 22:14:42 1994 How about a nice bulletin board interface for news? I mean,. it's the TMI tradition to use bulletin boards for gathering information, and while here, I tend to prefer it over a Usenet-ish look and feel. If I want to read newsgroups, I can go to Idea Exchange; while here I'd like the option of getting my information the "old-fashioned" way - from a bulletin board. Realistically speaking, it would be possible to route newsgroups through the bulletin board interface that TMI uses...keeping the "world-at-large" which can be explored, and the newsgroups, in line might prove a little tricky, but I think it would be possible. What I'm afraid of seeing is two staggeringly different info systems (from an interface perspective) continuing, and redundant posts getting placed all over the place, or missing something important because of not having the time to read both news arenas. Somehow, I'd like to see the systems merge and blend together somewhat; the bboard front end, for instance, and the news backend. Just a few random thougts... Digitizer --- poster: Dana subject: >Mud news. date: Tue Dec 27 11:06:56 1994 What you're talking about is designing a mud type OS. That, i agree, would be riotous fun. However, we are discussing MUDs here. Games. I don't really think that your average player enters a mud for the express pleasure of reading rec.fish. I could be wrong, of course. The number of people that Usenet reaches completely irrelevant. We're interested in muds. I agree with you - the fun you get out of playing with IP protocols vastly outweighs mud ones - but, once again, we are designing MUD protocols. There's a distinct difference. -dana --- poster: Dana subject: > date: Tue Dec 27 11:03:26 1994 Abigail writes: > Trying to recreate a written note after ed bugged out during saving: > Dana writes: > > Abigail writes: > > [ Snip ] > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > Abigail > > > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > > the most civil of individuals? > :a > > Sure I have. But I'm still here. That's the point. Would you be if that creator had spammed usenet? I'm not willing to take that risk. -dana --- poster: Leto subject: Re: Abigail date: Thu Dec 22 19:15:37 1994 To reply to Abigails remark concerning 'other muds who might want to access all of Usenet' I'm working on a nntp.c which will allow communication with your local Usenet nntp server. What groups you want to feed is your problem. What groups you want to serve is your problem. What I will not implement myself is a 'piggyback' system to use Usenet for mud groups. I already have the TCP port listening, and I am working on adding a UDP port too, for those muds not using Amylaar. It's obvious that if you want to incorporate Usenet groups, that you might as well make the mud groups and local (your mud only groups) in the same format. I haven't looked at the rn code, but I assume it's easy to tie those two together. Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: *sigh* date: Thu Dec 22 18:13:29 1994 Let's try again to post a complete note...... (Fifth time or so.) BTW, is there any way to remove an incomplete, never wanted to post note? Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] :z > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. > :> I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with : > something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then :> i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. : > :i So you have an idiotic system admin, and you won't want people post on non-mud specific groups. Good, then don't. But is that a reason why other muds shouldn't get the groups they want? Why develop a protocol where muds can only chose from a handful of groups in stead of one where muds can choose from 5000 groups. > > As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should > stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written > yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs > and everything else. > > > -dana So, what did the people do who wrote A-news, B-news, C-news, NNTP etc do? I think a lot more people have fun with the services provided by those people than all mudlibs combined. Usenet reaches an estimated number of 40 million readers. I doubt the total number of people who ever visited a mud is even close. But if you like to stay in a small circle, that's fine. But I still don't see any reason to spend time to develop a protocol which provides muds with a dozen groups, when with less effort muds can choose any combination of about 5000 groups to carry in their mud. Personally I would have more fun in developping a news system which can provide a very Tolkienique mud with alt.fan.tolkien, a sf mud with rec.arts.science-fiction and rec.tv.startrek, or whatever a mud wants, then redesigning usenet on microlevel, with a handful of groups. Abigail --- poster: Abigail subject: Mud news. date: Thu Dec 22 18:09:27 1994 THIRD time to try to post something in here. First ed bugs out during saving, then the dumb editor suddenly quits. Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] :z > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. > :> I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with : > something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then :> i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. : > :i So you have an idiotic system admin, and you won't want people post on non-mud specific groups. Good, then don't. But is that a reason why other muds shouldn't get the groups they want? Why develop a protocol where muds can only chose from a handful of groups in stead of one where muds can choose from 5000 groups. > > As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should > stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written > yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs > and everything else. > > > -dana So, what did the people do who wrote A-news, B-news, C-news, NNTP etc do? I think a lot more people have fun with the services provided by those people than all mudlib writes combined. Usenet has reaches an estimated number of 40 million readers. I doubt the total number of people who ever visited a mud is even close. But if you like to stay in a small circle, that's fine. But I still don't see any reason to spend time to develop a protocol which provides muds with a dozen groups, when with less effort muds can choose any combination of about 5000 groups to carry in their mud. Personally I would have more fun in developping a news system which can provide --- poster: Abigail subject: date: Thu Dec 22 18:04:42 1994 Trying to recreate a written note after ed bugged out during saving: Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. --- poster: Dana subject: >>>>>I agree date: Thu Dec 22 12:09:58 1994 Abigail writes: > Dana writes: > > Leto writes: > > > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > > > on IdeaExchange. > > > > > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > > > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > > > > > Leto > > > > Agreed. > > > > Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else > > is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed > > through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the > > idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something > > inflammatory from it either. > > > > -dana > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > Abigail Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't the most civil of individuals? I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs and everything else. -dana --- poster: Abigail subject: >>>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 20:55:05 1994 Dana writes: > Leto writes: > > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > > on IdeaExchange. > > > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > > > Leto > > Agreed. > > Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else > is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed > through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the > idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something > inflammatory from it either. > > -dana What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. Abigail --- poster: Dana subject: >>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 03:13:31 1994 Leto writes: > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > on IdeaExchange. > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > Leto Agreed. Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something inflammatory from it either. -dana --- poster: Leto subject: >>I agree date: Tue Dec 20 18:58:07 1994 Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts on IdeaExchange. Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless regions is a Bad Thin IMHO Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: >I agree date: Sat Dec 17 18:12:59 1994 Well, I think intermud news is very nice, but it shouldn't be hard to go "all the way", and offer written articles to the local inews programs. In that case the usual usenet infrastructure takes care of the transport, and new sites can easily hop in. Then you can also read rec.games.mud.* from within the mud. No need for separate sockets between muds. (I've been pondering to make a newsreader/poster for DGD and get/post in the usenet groups.) Abigail --- poster: Drizzt subject: I agree date: Sat Dec 17 13:32:21 1994 I agree.. I think that stuff for mud related issues should go in mud.*.. this way, players, etc can have groups such as players.*, etc.. such mudgroups would be like mud.newsreaders.rn mud.socket.ftpd, etc.. even though these names are longer than newsreaders.rn it is more organized into the smaller groups.. i think we should have as FEW main groups as possible.. -- Drizzt --- poster: Leto subject: which new groups to add..... date: Sat Dec 17 12:37:51 1994 I would suggest to keeping the same logical order as IdeaExchange, so we can merge the two together when we get intermud news off the ground. Then ie.* and tmi-2/* could be local groups and all others cold be shared. Leto --- poster: Mobydick subject: bulletin board date: Thu Dec 15 23:55:23 1994 It shouldn't be very hard to rig a bulletin board to query the news_server.c and produce the usual result. Access to post might be a bit trickier but should not be impossible. I'll provide a directory to anyone who wants to work on this but doesn't have anywhere else to do it. Moby --- poster: Digitizer subject: news and boards... date: Thu Dec 15 22:14:42 1994 How about a nice bulletin board interface for news? I mean,. it's the TMI tradition to use bulletin boards for gathering information, and while here, I tend to prefer it over a Usenet-ish look and feel. If I want to read newsgroups, I can go to Idea Exchange; while here I'd like the option of getting my information the "old-fashioned" way - from a bulletin board. Realistically speaking, it would be possible to route newsgroups through the bulletin board interface that TMI uses...keeping the "world-at-large" which can be explored, and the newsgroups, in line might prove a little tricky, but I think it would be possible. What I'm afraid of seeing is two staggeringly different info systems (from an interface perspective) continuing, and redundant posts getting placed all over the place, or missing something important because of not having the time to read both news arenas. Somehow, I'd like to see the systems merge and blend together somewhat; the bboard front end, for instance, and the news backend. Just a few random thougts... Digitizer --- poster: Dana subject: >Mud news. date: Tue Dec 27 11:06:56 1994 What you're talking about is designing a mud type OS. That, i agree, would be riotous fun. However, we are discussing MUDs here. Games. I don't really think that your average player enters a mud for the express pleasure of reading rec.fish. I could be wrong, of course. The number of people that Usenet reaches completely irrelevant. We're interested in muds. I agree with you - the fun you get out of playing with IP protocols vastly outweighs mud ones - but, once again, we are designing MUD protocols. There's a distinct difference. -dana --- poster: Dana subject: > date: Tue Dec 27 11:03:26 1994 Abigail writes: > Trying to recreate a written note after ed bugged out during saving: > Dana writes: > > Abigail writes: > > [ Snip ] > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > Abigail > > > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > > the most civil of individuals? > :a > > Sure I have. But I'm still here. That's the point. Would you be if that creator had spammed usenet? I'm not willing to take that risk. -dana --- poster: Leto subject: Re: Abigail date: Thu Dec 22 19:15:37 1994 To reply to Abigails remark concerning 'other muds who might want to access all of Usenet' I'm working on a nntp.c which will allow communication with your local Usenet nntp server. What groups you want to feed is your problem. What groups you want to serve is your problem. What I will not implement myself is a 'piggyback' system to use Usenet for mud groups. I already have the TCP port listening, and I am working on adding a UDP port too, for those muds not using Amylaar. It's obvious that if you want to incorporate Usenet groups, that you might as well make the mud groups and local (your mud only groups) in the same format. I haven't looked at the rn code, but I assume it's easy to tie those two together. Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: *sigh* date: Thu Dec 22 18:13:29 1994 Let's try again to post a complete note...... (Fifth time or so.) BTW, is there any way to remove an incomplete, never wanted to post note? Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] :z > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. > :> I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with : > something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then :> i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. : > :i So you have an idiotic system admin, and you won't want people post on non-mud specific groups. Good, then don't. But is that a reason why other muds shouldn't get the groups they want? Why develop a protocol where muds can only chose from a handful of groups in stead of one where muds can choose from 5000 groups. > > As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should > stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written > yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs > and everything else. > > > -dana So, what did the people do who wrote A-news, B-news, C-news, NNTP etc do? I think a lot more people have fun with the services provided by those people than all mudlibs combined. Usenet reaches an estimated number of 40 million readers. I doubt the total number of people who ever visited a mud is even close. But if you like to stay in a small circle, that's fine. But I still don't see any reason to spend time to develop a protocol which provides muds with a dozen groups, when with less effort muds can choose any combination of about 5000 groups to carry in their mud. Personally I would have more fun in developping a news system which can provide a very Tolkienique mud with alt.fan.tolkien, a sf mud with rec.arts.science-fiction and rec.tv.startrek, or whatever a mud wants, then redesigning usenet on microlevel, with a handful of groups. Abigail --- poster: Abigail subject: Mud news. date: Thu Dec 22 18:09:27 1994 THIRD time to try to post something in here. First ed bugs out during saving, then the dumb editor suddenly quits. Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] :z > > > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. > :> I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with : > something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then :> i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. : > :i So you have an idiotic system admin, and you won't want people post on non-mud specific groups. Good, then don't. But is that a reason why other muds shouldn't get the groups they want? Why develop a protocol where muds can only chose from a handful of groups in stead of one where muds can choose from 5000 groups. > > As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should > stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written > yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs > and everything else. > > > -dana So, what did the people do who wrote A-news, B-news, C-news, NNTP etc do? I think a lot more people have fun with the services provided by those people than all mudlib writes combined. Usenet has reaches an estimated number of 40 million readers. I doubt the total number of people who ever visited a mud is even close. But if you like to stay in a small circle, that's fine. But I still don't see any reason to spend time to develop a protocol which provides muds with a dozen groups, when with less effort muds can choose any combination of about 5000 groups to carry in their mud. Personally I would have more fun in developping a news system which can provide --- poster: Abigail subject: date: Thu Dec 22 18:04:42 1994 Trying to recreate a written note after ed bugged out during saving: Dana writes: > Abigail writes: [ Snip ] > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > Abigail > > Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't > the most civil of individuals? :a Sure I have. But I'm still here. --- poster: Dana subject: >>>>>I agree date: Thu Dec 22 12:09:58 1994 Abigail writes: > Dana writes: > > Leto writes: > > > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > > > on IdeaExchange. > > > > > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > > > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > > > > > Leto > > > > Agreed. > > > > Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else > > is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed > > through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the > > idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something > > inflammatory from it either. > > > > -dana > > What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear > you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? > None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. > Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you > HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's > an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. > > Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. > > Abigail Oh? you've never run across a creator who wasn't the most civil of individuals? I do envy you. I've met more than one. If one of those comes up with something as wonderful on Usenet as they have done on intermud, then i would be amazed if my account wasn't instantaneously revoked. As for cheating - intermud is something between muds. It should stay that way. It's vastly more fun to provide services that you've written yourself from the ground up. After all - that's why people write mudlibs and everything else. -dana --- poster: Abigail subject: >>>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 20:55:05 1994 Dana writes: > Leto writes: > > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > > on IdeaExchange. > > > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > > > Leto > > Agreed. > > Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else > is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed > through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the > idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something > inflammatory from it either. > > -dana What do you mean by 'cheating'? Is this a contest? But why the fear you would lose you mud because someone posts something unappropriate? None one lost their normal site when a normal person does it. Besides, having mudnews flow with usenet traffic doesn't mean you HAVE TO give all your players posting rights to all groups, but it's an OPTION with comes with NO EXTRA CHARGE. Being afraid to lose your mud is a non-argument. Abigail --- poster: Dana subject: >>>I agree date: Wed Dec 21 03:13:31 1994 Leto writes: > Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts > on IdeaExchange. > > Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless > regions is a Bad Thin IMHO > > Leto Agreed. Intermud should be solely mud based. Using anything else is cheating. This applies equally well to having mail routed through normal email. And news. Besides, i don't much like the idea of losing my mud because some git decides to post something inflammatory from it either. -dana --- poster: Leto subject: >>I agree date: Tue Dec 20 18:58:07 1994 Re using Internet's Usenet services for mudnews, see my posts on IdeaExchange. Summary: Spreading our news far and wide in unknown useless regions is a Bad Thin IMHO Leto --- poster: Abigail subject: >I agree date: Sat Dec 17 18:12:59 1994 Well, I think intermud news is very nice, but it shouldn't be hard to go "all the way", and offer written articles to the local inews programs. In that case the usual usenet infrastructure takes care of the transport, and new sites can easily hop in. Then you can also read rec.games.mud.* from within the mud. No need for separate sockets between muds. (I've been pondering to make a newsreader/poster for DGD and get/post in the usenet groups.) Abigail --- poster: Drizzt subject: I agree date: Sat Dec 17 13:32:21 1994 I agree.. I think that stuff for mud related issues should go in mud.*.. this way, players, etc can have groups such as players.*, etc.. such mudgroups would be like mud.newsreaders.rn mud.socket.ftpd, etc.. even though these names are longer than newsreaders.rn it is more organized into the smaller groups.. i think we should have as FEW main groups as possible.. -- Drizzt --- poster: Leto subject: which new groups to add..... date: Sat Dec 17 12:37:51 1994 I would suggest to keeping the same logical order as IdeaExchange, so we can merge the two together when we get intermud news off the ground. Then ie.* and tmi-2/* could be local groups and all others cold be shared. Leto --- poster: Mobydick subject: bulletin board date: Thu Dec 15 23:55:23 1994 It shouldn't be very hard to rig a bulletin board to query the news_server.c and produce the usual result. Access to post might be a bit trickier but should not be impossible. I'll provide a directory to anyone who wants to work on this but doesn't have anywhere else to do it. Moby --- poster: Digitizer subject: news and boards... date: Thu Dec 15 22:14:42 1994 How about a nice bulletin board interface for news? I mean,. it's the TMI tradition to use bulletin boards for gathering information, and while here, I tend to prefer it over a Usenet-ish look and feel. If I want to read newsgroups, I can go to Idea Exchange; while here I'd like the option of getting my information the "old-fashioned" way - from a bulletin board. Realistically speaking, it would be possible to route newsgroups through the bulletin board interface that TMI uses...keeping the "world-at-large" which can be explored, and the newsgroups, in line might prove a little tricky, but I think it would be possible. What I'm afraid of seeing is two staggeringly different info systems (from an interface perspective) continuing, and redundant posts getting placed all over the place, or missing something important because of not having the time to read both news arenas. Somehow, I'd like to see the systems merge and blend together somewhat; the bboard front end, for instance, and the news backend. Just a few random thougts... Digitizer --- poster: Chuck subject: Not much happening here at all over the last month... date: Thu Feb 9 07:54:40 1995 No news is kak news. --- poster: Chuck subject: Not much happening here at all over the last month... date: Thu Feb 9 07:54:40 1995 No news is kak news. --- poster: Chuck subject: Not much happening here at all over the last month... date: Thu Feb 9 07:54:40 1995 No news is kak news. --- poster: Chuck subject: Not much happening here at all over the last month... date: Thu Feb 9 07:54:40 1995 No news is kak news. --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 20:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 20:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 20:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 05:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 05:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 20:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 05:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 05:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 20:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 05:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 05:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 20:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 14:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 05:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 05:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 20:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 17:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 14:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 05:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 05:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 20:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 17:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 14:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 05:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 05:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 20:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 04:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 17:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 14:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 05:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 05:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 20:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 04:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 17:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 14:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 05:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 05:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 20:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 04:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 17:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 14:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 05:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 05:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 20:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 04:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 17:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 14:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 05:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 05:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 20:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 03:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 16:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 13:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 04:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Sun Feb 19 19:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Percy subject: >>>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Wed Mar 1 10:22:44 1995 Robocoder writes: > Someone fixed it. Oh. That's good. I think this format is kinda neat. Now all it needs is a little publicity. =] -- Percy -- --- poster: Robocoder subject: >>>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 23:06:10 1995 Someone fixed it. --- poster: Percy subject: >>? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 27 20:16:19 1995 Robocoder writes: > Well...the newsreader is working again. =) Is it mysteriously working again, or did someone fix it? --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 11:25:37 1995 Well...the newsreader is working again. =) --- poster: Robocoder subject: >? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Thu Feb 23 11:11:31 1995 This is a test --- poster: Robocoder subject: ? could it be that I can't read messages here? date: Mon Feb 20 02:02:45 1995 Also, haveing two distinctly separate news/discussion systems (the paper being quite new), suggests that either: 1) people don't know about the paper 2) people are so used to the boards, they forget about the paper Suggestion: link boards and the paper. --- poster: Dalto subject: usage date: Fri Jun 2 01:42:11 1995 Is this still in use? -Dalto --- poster: Dalto subject: usage date: Fri Jun 2 01:42:11 1995 Is this still in use? -Dalto --- poster: Dalto subject: usage date: Fri Jun 2 01:42:11 1995 Is this still in use? -Dalto --- poster: Dalto subject: usage date: Fri Jun 2 01:42:11 1995 Is this still in use? -Dalto --- poster: Dalto subject: usage date: Fri Jun 2 01:42:11 1995 Is this still in use? -Dalto --- poster: Dalto subject: usage date: Fri Jun 2 01:42:11 1995 Is this still in use? -Dalto --- poster: Dalto subject: usage date: Fri Jun 2 01:42:11 1995 Is this still in use? -Dalto --- poster: Dalto subject: usage date: Fri Jun 2 01:42:11 1995 Is this still in use? -Dalto --- poster: Dalto subject: usage date: Fri Jun 2 01:42:11 1995 Is this still in use? -Dalto --- poster: Dalto subject: usage date: Fri Jun 2 01:42:11 1995 Is this still in use? -Dalto --- poster: Dalto subject: usage date: Fri Jun 2 01:42:11 1995 Is this still in use? -Dalto --- poster: Dalto subject: usage date: Fri Jun 2 01:42:11 1995 Is this still in use? -Dalto --- poster: Dalto subject: usage date: Fri Jun 2 01:42:11 1995 Is this still in use? -Dalto --- poster: Dalto subject: usage date: Fri Jun 2 01:42:11 1995 Is this still in use? -Dalto --- poster: Dalto subject: usage date: Fri Jun 2 00:42:11 1995 Is this still in use? -Dalto --- poster: Dalto subject: usage date: Fri Jun 2 00:42:11 1995 Is this still in use? -Dalto --- poster: Dalto subject: usage date: Fri Jun 2 00:42:11 1995 Is this still in use? -Dalto
