---
poster: Mobydick
subject: >Object Persistance
date: Wed Dec 14 20:39:33 1994
First, we have to define what we mean by "object persistance", just so
we're all talking about the same thing :)  I'm going to chose a fairly
strict definition: object persistance means that no object is ever cloned
or destructed. All objects are loaded at start time and stick around
forever, though they may change hands or fall into disuse for a while
if sold to shops or left in remote areas.
If one wanted to implement this kind of behavior under MudOS/TMI-2, there
are three main problems that have to be addressed. Two of them are coding
problems, the other is conceptual.
The coding problem is to defeat the clone_object() and destruct() efuns
so that they're not used (or in the case of clone_object(), is used only
to initially load the objects). It's simple enough to override these two
efuns with simuls: however, this does Bad Things to traditional memory
management. It's necessary to replace old destruction-based memory
management with a recylcing mentality. When a monster needs to acquire
a sword, it can't just clone one anymore: it has to look for one that's
not currently in use and appropriate it. Thus, there has to be some
concept of when an object can be appropriated. I haven't thought
a whole lot about this problem, but it would seem simple to stick with
the existing clean_up mechanism. Instead of desting the object, however,
move it to a holding area. Any object in the holding area can be reclaimed
by any monster, room, or what-have-you that needs it. You'll want to
create a reclaim_object() simul that would be used where clone_object()
is usually used now: you'll also need to handle cases where a monster
tries to reclaim an object but none is available.
The second problem is dealing with shutdowns. The best thing to do is
use DGD which has a state save, but you've ruled that out :) If you want
to use MudOS, you'll have to have each object save all of its data to
disk. That means, right off the bat, you can't use object pointers, because
they don't save. You'll have to do all reference to other objects by file
name instead of by pointer, because the file names will restore properly
at load time. There is the problem of object numbers, but I think that
if you load all the mud's objects at start time, you should be able to
get all objects to come up with a consistent numbering.
An alternative would be not to use clones: just have all objects be
associated with a unique file, and disable clone_object() entirely. This
wouldn't waste too much disk space because you can always have sword6.c be:
#include "/obj/sword1.c"
which gives you the same code with its own file name. It also saves the
problem of determining save file names: if you have /obj/sword#10 and
/obj/sword#11, you can't save both of them to /obj/sword.o. Something
like that needs to be worked out, anyway.
The conceptual problem is simply to explain where new users come from and
what happens to them when they die. (Same problem for monsters). If you
keep all other objects limited but allow new users to be cloned at will,
soon there won't be enough objects to go around. I think it will be
necessary to limit the total number of characters on the system (not logged
on: the total number of saved characters). This may mean that a new player
might log on and not be able to create a character, but I think that can be
held down in two ways; first, aggressive purging of characters that haven't
logged in (with exceptions for school breaks) and by making death permanent.
When a character dies, that user object becomes free for someone else to
create a new character. A related problem is explaining where users go when
they log out. In a nonpersistant world you can ignore this problem, but if
users are taking objects with them when they go, you need to explain where
they went, where those objects are, and figure out some method for returning
those objects to the game if the character doesn't log in again for a while.
Similarly, there needs to be some monster life cycle so that when a monster
is killed, its body becomes available for a new monster to be loaded
somewhere.


---
poster: Decker
subject: Hey!
date: Tue Dec 13 20:17:22 1994
Let's get some messages on this thing!  Hmm..coding
questions.  Ok here's a question:

How can I use the vi() function?  This doesn't seem to work and
I wanna use the wonderful complex vi editor in my unix box.  :)

Nah I'm sorry I've been out of the LPC world too long.  I'm not even
sure what's changed in MudOS other than some rewriting and changes
to the internals.

Anyway, just wanted to see more postings to this nice addition to
TMI's mudlib.  Beek has done a good job writing this me thinks.

Later..I have a final exam.  :)

Decker


---
poster: Meronda
subject: Object Persistance
date: Tue Dec 13 19:13:11 1994
I have heard many different things on the subject of saving objects
for players, and I am interested in knowing if anyone has ideas on
the most efficient way to handle this (if at all) using MudOS and
the TMI 1.2 lib.

Meronda/Kyla on Cinder


---
poster: Mobydick
subject: this newsgroup
date: Mon Dec 12 17:25:23 1994
This newsgroup is meant to handle coding questions that are too
complicated or involved for the question channel and which don't fit
nicely under one of the boards available.

Mobydick


---
poster: Darshu
subject: Moving Monster
date: Thu Dec 22 20:38:07 1994
Been having much problems with a certain moving monster.  I copyed the code
from cat.c, which is where the problem is.  I believe that the set ("speed",
is not working correctly, but i could be wrong.  The problem is that the
moving monster will at first move at a normal rate, then the speed will 
increase with time.  It will eventually get so fast, it will enter, exit, and
enter a room again, before u can even type a letter.  Then it just dies out
somehow, and desctructs itself.  If cat.c is load you will see what i mean.
My question is ..., is there another way, or another example i could look at.
So as too have a moving monster?


---
poster: Darshu
subject: Moving Monster
date: Thu Dec 22 20:38:07 1994
Been having much problems with a certain moving monster.  I copyed the code
from cat.c, which is where the problem is.  I believe that the set ("speed",
is not working correctly, but i could be wrong.  The problem is that the
moving monster will at first move at a normal rate, then the speed will 
increase with time.  It will eventually get so fast, it will enter, exit, and
enter a room again, before u can even type a letter.  Then it just dies out
somehow, and desctructs itself.  If cat.c is load you will see what i mean.
My question is ..., is there another way, or another example i could look at.
So as too have a moving monster?


---
poster: Malic
subject: >Moving Monster
date: Thu Dec 29 23:44:31 1994
Darshu writes:
> Been having much problems with a certain moving monster.  I copyed the code
> from cat.c, which is where the problem is.  I believe that the set ("speed",
> is not working correctly, but i could be wrong.  The problem is that the
> moving monster will at first move at a normal rate, then the speed will 
> increase with time.  It will eventually get so fast, it will enter, exit, and
> enter a room again, before u can even type a letter.  Then it just dies out
> somehow, and desctructs itself.  If cat.c is load you will see what i mean.
> My question is ..., is there another way, or another example i could look at.
> So as too have a moving monster?

Good guess, but not quite right.  Movement is handled by callout a callout
loop, of duration 'speed'.  Your problem has the symptoms of extra loops
being added, out of phase with the original loop.  Eventually at any given
moment you have one of the loops calling move_around().  You can confirm
this with the 'codfish', probably found in Archimede's directory. (ask him
for one, he gives them away, free even).

I don't see an obvious reason for this to happen in the standard cat, but there
is a flaw you may have encountered:  Every time set("moving",1) is called in
the cat, an extra loop is created.  It should check if it's already moving
with a call_out_info() call.  On your end, you should look for these extra
set() calls.

Malic


---
poster: Darshu
subject: Moving Monster
date: Thu Dec 22 20:38:07 1994
Been having much problems with a certain moving monster.  I copyed the code
from cat.c, which is where the problem is.  I believe that the set ("speed",
is not working correctly, but i could be wrong.  The problem is that the
moving monster will at first move at a normal rate, then the speed will 
increase with time.  It will eventually get so fast, it will enter, exit, and
enter a room again, before u can even type a letter.  Then it just dies out
somehow, and desctructs itself.  If cat.c is load you will see what i mean.
My question is ..., is there another way, or another example i could look at.
So as too have a moving monster?


---
poster: Malic
subject: >Moving Monster
date: Thu Dec 29 23:44:31 1994
Darshu writes:
> Been having much problems with a certain moving monster.  I copyed the code
> from cat.c, which is where the problem is.  I believe that the set ("speed",
> is not working correctly, but i could be wrong.  The problem is that the
> moving monster will at first move at a normal rate, then the speed will 
> increase with time.  It will eventually get so fast, it will enter, exit, and
> enter a room again, before u can even type a letter.  Then it just dies out
> somehow, and desctructs itself.  If cat.c is load you will see what i mean.
> My question is ..., is there another way, or another example i could look at.
> So as too have a moving monster?

Good guess, but not quite right.  Movement is handled by callout a callout
loop, of duration 'speed'.  Your problem has the symptoms of extra loops
being added, out of phase with the original loop.  Eventually at any given
moment you have one of the loops calling move_around().  You can confirm
this with the 'codfish', probably found in Archimede's directory. (ask him
for one, he gives them away, free even).

I don't see an obvious reason for this to happen in the standard cat, but there
is a flaw you may have encountered:  Every time set("moving",1) is called in
the cat, an extra loop is created.  It should check if it's already moving
with a call_out_info() call.  On your end, you should look for these extra
set() calls.

Malic


---
poster: Darshu
subject: Moving Monster
date: Thu Dec 22 20:38:07 1994
Been having much problems with a certain moving monster.  I copyed the code
from cat.c, which is where the problem is.  I believe that the set ("speed",
is not working correctly, but i could be wrong.  The problem is that the
moving monster will at first move at a normal rate, then the speed will 
increase with time.  It will eventually get so fast, it will enter, exit, and
enter a room again, before u can even type a letter.  Then it just dies out
somehow, and desctructs itself.  If cat.c is load you will see what i mean.
My question is ..., is there another way, or another example i could look at.
So as too have a moving monster?


---
poster: Malic
subject: >Moving Monster
date: Thu Dec 29 23:44:31 1994
Darshu writes:
> Been having much problems with a certain moving monster.  I copyed the code
> from cat.c, which is where the problem is.  I believe that the set ("speed",
> is not working correctly, but i could be wrong.  The problem is that the
> moving monster will at first move at a normal rate, then the speed will 
> increase with time.  It will eventually get so fast, it will enter, exit, and
> enter a room again, before u can even type a letter.  Then it just dies out
> somehow, and desctructs itself.  If cat.c is load you will see what i mean.
> My question is ..., is there another way, or another example i could look at.
> So as too have a moving monster?

Good guess, but not quite right.  Movement is handled by callout a callout
loop, of duration 'speed'.  Your problem has the symptoms of extra loops
being added, out of phase with the original loop.  Eventually at any given
moment you have one of the loops calling move_around().  You can confirm
this with the 'codfish', probably found in Archimede's directory. (ask him
for one, he gives them away, free even).

I don't see an obvious reason for this to happen in the standard cat, but there
is a flaw you may have encountered:  Every time set("moving",1) is called in
the cat, an extra loop is created.  It should check if it's already moving
with a call_out_info() call.  On your end, you should look for these extra
set() calls.

Malic


---
poster: Darshu
subject: Moving Monster
date: Thu Dec 22 20:38:07 1994
Been having much problems with a certain moving monster.  I copyed the code
from cat.c, which is where the problem is.  I believe that the set ("speed",
is not working correctly, but i could be wrong.  The problem is that the
moving monster will at first move at a normal rate, then the speed will 
increase with time.  It will eventually get so fast, it will enter, exit, and
enter a room again, before u can even type a letter.  Then it just dies out
somehow, and desctructs itself.  If cat.c is load you will see what i mean.
My question is ..., is there another way, or another example i could look at.
So as too have a moving monster?


---
poster: Malic
subject: >Moving Monster
date: Thu Dec 29 23:44:31 1994
Darshu writes:
> Been having much problems with a certain moving monster.  I copyed the code
> from cat.c, which is where the problem is.  I believe that the set ("speed",
> is not working correctly, but i could be wrong.  The problem is that the
> moving monster will at first move at a normal rate, then the speed will 
> increase with time.  It will eventually get so fast, it will enter, exit, and
> enter a room again, before u can even type a letter.  Then it just dies out
> somehow, and desctructs itself.  If cat.c is load you will see what i mean.
> My question is ..., is there another way, or another example i could look at.
> So as too have a moving monster?

Good guess, but not quite right.  Movement is handled by callout a callout
loop, of duration 'speed'.  Your problem has the symptoms of extra loops
being added, out of phase with the original loop.  Eventually at any given
moment you have one of the loops calling move_around().  You can confirm
this with the 'codfish', probably found in Archimede's directory. (ask him
for one, he gives them away, free even).

I don't see an obvious reason for this to happen in the standard cat, but there
is a flaw you may have encountered:  Every time set("moving",1) is called in
the cat, an extra loop is created.  It should check if it's already moving
with a call_out_info() call.  On your end, you should look for these extra
set() calls.

Malic


---
poster: Darshu
subject: Moving Monster
date: Thu Dec 22 20:38:07 1994
Been having much problems with a certain moving monster.  I copyed the code
from cat.c, which is where the problem is.  I believe that the set ("speed",
is not working correctly, but i could be wrong.  The problem is that the
moving monster will at first move at a normal rate, then the speed will 
increase with time.  It will eventually get so fast, it will enter, exit, and
enter a room again, before u can even type a letter.  Then it just dies out
somehow, and desctructs itself.  If cat.c is load you will see what i mean.
My question is ..., is there another way, or another example i could look at.
So as too have a moving monster?


---
poster: Malic
subject: >Moving Monster
date: Thu Dec 29 23:44:31 1994
Darshu writes:
> Been having much problems with a certain moving monster.  I copyed the code
> from cat.c, which is where the problem is.  I believe that the set ("speed",
> is not working correctly, but i could be wrong.  The problem is that the
> moving monster will at first move at a normal rate, then the speed will 
> increase with time.  It will eventually get so fast, it will enter, exit, and
> enter a room again, before u can even type a letter.  Then it just dies out
> somehow, and desctructs itself.  If cat.c is load you will see what i mean.
> My question is ..., is there another way, or another example i could look at.
> So as too have a moving monster?

Good guess, but not quite right.  Movement is handled by callout a callout
loop, of duration 'speed'.  Your problem has the symptoms of extra loops
being added, out of phase with the original loop.  Eventually at any given
moment you have one of the loops calling move_around().  You can confirm
this with the 'codfish', probably found in Archimede's directory. (ask him
for one, he gives them away, free even).

I don't see an obvious reason for this to happen in the standard cat, but there
is a flaw you may have encountered:  Every time set("moving",1) is called in
the cat, an extra loop is created.  It should check if it's already moving
with a call_out_info() call.  On your end, you should look for these extra
set() calls.

Malic


---
poster: Darshu
subject: Moving Monster
date: Thu Dec 22 20:38:07 1994
Been having much problems with a certain moving monster.  I copyed the code
from cat.c, which is where the problem is.  I believe that the set ("speed",
is not working correctly, but i could be wrong.  The problem is that the
moving monster will at first move at a normal rate, then the speed will 
increase with time.  It will eventually get so fast, it will enter, exit, and
enter a room again, before u can even type a letter.  Then it just dies out
somehow, and desctructs itself.  If cat.c is load you will see what i mean.
My question is ..., is there another way, or another example i could look at.
So as too have a moving monster?


---
poster: Malic
subject: >Moving Monster
date: Thu Dec 29 23:44:31 1994
Darshu writes:
> Been having much problems with a certain moving monster.  I copyed the code
> from cat.c, which is where the problem is.  I believe that the set ("speed",
> is not working correctly, but i could be wrong.  The problem is that the
> moving monster will at first move at a normal rate, then the speed will 
> increase with time.  It will eventually get so fast, it will enter, exit, and
> enter a room again, before u can even type a letter.  Then it just dies out
> somehow, and desctructs itself.  If cat.c is load you will see what i mean.
> My question is ..., is there another way, or another example i could look at.
> So as too have a moving monster?

Good guess, but not quite right.  Movement is handled by callout a callout
loop, of duration 'speed'.  Your problem has the symptoms of extra loops
being added, out of phase with the original loop.  Eventually at any given
moment you have one of the loops calling move_around().  You can confirm
this with the 'codfish', probably found in Archimede's directory. (ask him
for one, he gives them away, free even).

I don't see an obvious reason for this to happen in the standard cat, but there
is a flaw you may have encountered:  Every time set("moving",1) is called in
the cat, an extra loop is created.  It should check if it's already moving
with a call_out_info() call.  On your end, you should look for these extra
set() calls.

Malic


---
poster: Darshu
subject: Moving Monster
date: Thu Dec 22 20:38:07 1994
Been having much problems with a certain moving monster.  I copyed the code
from cat.c, which is where the problem is.  I believe that the set ("speed",
is not working correctly, but i could be wrong.  The problem is that the
moving monster will at first move at a normal rate, then the speed will 
increase with time.  It will eventually get so fast, it will enter, exit, and
enter a room again, before u can even type a letter.  Then it just dies out
somehow, and desctructs itself.  If cat.c is load you will see what i mean.
My question is ..., is there another way, or another example i could look at.
So as too have a moving monster?


---
poster: Malic
subject: >Moving Monster
date: Thu Dec 29 23:44:31 1994
Darshu writes:
> Been having much problems with a certain moving monster.  I copyed the code
> from cat.c, which is where the problem is.  I believe that the set ("speed",
> is not working correctly, but i could be wrong.  The problem is that the
> moving monster will at first move at a normal rate, then the speed will 
> increase with time.  It will eventually get so fast, it will enter, exit, and
> enter a room again, before u can even type a letter.  Then it just dies out
> somehow, and desctructs itself.  If cat.c is load you will see what i mean.
> My question is ..., is there another way, or another example i could look at.
> So as too have a moving monster?

Good guess, but not quite right.  Movement is handled by callout a callout
loop, of duration 'speed'.  Your problem has the symptoms of extra loops
being added, out of phase with the original loop.  Eventually at any given
moment you have one of the loops calling move_around().  You can confirm
this with the 'codfish', probably found in Archimede's directory. (ask him
for one, he gives them away, free even).

I don't see an obvious reason for this to happen in the standard cat, but there
is a flaw you may have encountered:  Every time set("moving",1) is called in
the cat, an extra loop is created.  It should check if it's already moving
with a call_out_info() call.  On your end, you should look for these extra
set() calls.

Malic


---
poster: Darshu
subject: Moving Monster
date: Thu Dec 22 20:38:07 1994
Been having much problems with a certain moving monster.  I copyed the code
from cat.c, which is where the problem is.  I believe that the set ("speed",
is not working correctly, but i could be wrong.  The problem is that the
moving monster will at first move at a normal rate, then the speed will 
increase with time.  It will eventually get so fast, it will enter, exit, and
enter a room again, before u can even type a letter.  Then it just dies out
somehow, and desctructs itself.  If cat.c is load you will see what i mean.
My question is ..., is there another way, or another example i could look at.
So as too have a moving monster?


---
poster: Malic
subject: >Moving Monster
date: Thu Dec 29 23:44:31 1994
Darshu writes:
> Been having much problems with a certain moving monster.  I copyed the code
> from cat.c, which is where the problem is.  I believe that the set ("speed",
> is not working correctly, but i could be wrong.  The problem is that the
> moving monster will at first move at a normal rate, then the speed will 
> increase with time.  It will eventually get so fast, it will enter, exit, and
> enter a room again, before u can even type a letter.  Then it just dies out
> somehow, and desctructs itself.  If cat.c is load you will see what i mean.
> My question is ..., is there another way, or another example i could look at.
> So as too have a moving monster?

Good guess, but not quite right.  Movement is handled by callout a callout
loop, of duration 'speed'.  Your problem has the symptoms of extra loops
being added, out of phase with the original loop.  Eventually at any given
moment you have one of the loops calling move_around().  You can confirm
this with the 'codfish', probably found in Archimede's directory. (ask him
for one, he gives them away, free even).

I don't see an obvious reason for this to happen in the standard cat, but there
is a flaw you may have encountered:  Every time set("moving",1) is called in
the cat, an extra loop is created.  It should check if it's already moving
with a call_out_info() call.  On your end, you should look for these extra
set() calls.

Malic


---
poster: Darshu
subject: Moving Monster
date: Thu Dec 22 20:38:07 1994
Been having much problems with a certain moving monster.  I copyed the code
from cat.c, which is where the problem is.  I believe that the set ("speed",
is not working correctly, but i could be wrong.  The problem is that the
moving monster will at first move at a normal rate, then the speed will 
increase with time.  It will eventually get so fast, it will enter, exit, and
enter a room again, before u can even type a letter.  Then it just dies out
somehow, and desctructs itself.  If cat.c is load you will see what i mean.
My question is ..., is there another way, or another example i could look at.
So as too have a moving monster?


---
poster: Malic
subject: >Moving Monster
date: Thu Dec 29 23:44:31 1994
Darshu writes:
> Been having much problems with a certain moving monster.  I copyed the code
> from cat.c, which is where the problem is.  I believe that the set ("speed",
> is not working correctly, but i could be wrong.  The problem is that the
> moving monster will at first move at a normal rate, then the speed will 
> increase with time.  It will eventually get so fast, it will enter, exit, and
> enter a room again, before u can even type a letter.  Then it just dies out
> somehow, and desctructs itself.  If cat.c is load you will see what i mean.
> My question is ..., is there another way, or another example i could look at.
> So as too have a moving monster?

Good guess, but not quite right.  Movement is handled by callout a callout
loop, of duration 'speed'.  Your problem has the symptoms of extra loops
being added, out of phase with the original loop.  Eventually at any given
moment you have one of the loops calling move_around().  You can confirm
this with the 'codfish', probably found in Archimede's directory. (ask him
for one, he gives them away, free even).

I don't see an obvious reason for this to happen in the standard cat, but there
is a flaw you may have encountered:  Every time set("moving",1) is called in
the cat, an extra loop is created.  It should check if it's already moving
with a call_out_info() call.  On your end, you should look for these extra
set() calls.

Malic


---
poster: Darshu
subject: Moving Monster
date: Thu Dec 22 20:38:07 1994
Been having much problems with a certain moving monster.  I copyed the code
from cat.c, which is where the problem is.  I believe that the set ("speed",
is not working correctly, but i could be wrong.  The problem is that the
moving monster will at first move at a normal rate, then the speed will 
increase with time.  It will eventually get so fast, it will enter, exit, and
enter a room again, before u can even type a letter.  Then it just dies out
somehow, and desctructs itself.  If cat.c is load you will see what i mean.
My question is ..., is there another way, or another example i could look at.
So as too have a moving monster?