Logging is being enabled.
Leto is moderating.
The floor is open for discussion.
The room is not locked.
Local host time is Sun May 5 00:19:27 1996.
The following users are in attendance:
Deathknight
Rayjack
Rust
Skylight
Brainstorm
Lucas
Leto
Lucas says: good
Leto says: oki
Leto is moderating.
The floor is open for discussion.
The room is not locked.
Local host time is Sun May 5 00:20:03 1996.
The following users are in attendance:
Deathknight
Rayjack
Rust
Skylight
Brainstorm
Lucas
Leto
Leto says: let me see
Leto says: "And the Lord said onto the servante 'Let there be wine'"
Leto says: oops, wrong paper
Deathknight whines.
Brainstorm says: Hmm, no whisky ?
Leto says: hmm this 'say' indeed acts weird
Leto says: sigh
Rust says: Yea, some guy named 'Leto' wrote it, I think ;-)
Leto says: Moby wrote the conf room ;)
Rust says: ug, that'd explain it ;-)
Skylight lafs.
Leto says: well, let me check if logging works ;)
Lucas once had a long meeting with not log... It sucked.
Leto falls down laughing.
Leto says: let's start
Leto says: there are a few things that we need to know
Leto says: we need o know if people want to develop more at tmi-2
Deathknight says: Um,
Leto says: and if there is stuff to do, who will do which parts
Deathknight says: I think that question should be separated into 2 strains
Leto says: which are?
Deathknight says: 1) Develope further with existing code
Deathknight says: (IE, add on)
Deathknight says: 2) Rewrite/revamp existing code
Leto says: (says do work, even though you don't see your own)
Leto says: true
Rust says: blah, I prefer to lump them together,
Deathknight says: can't be
Leto says: but developing on can oly be done after a revamp :)
Rust says: either you're changing the mudlib, or you're writing a new one
Rust says: sure you can
Deathknight says: one involves rewriting existing code to be more efficient
and usually more functional
Rust says: developing is a process that isn't so concretely laid out as
adding on or revamping
Deathknight says: the other doesn't touch existing code except to add
features
Rust says: Neither one of these will happen in isolation
Leto says: ok.
Rust says: This is really freaky not seeing what I'm saying
Leto says: hold on :)
Rust says: I feel like I'm on a 2.4.5
Deathknight says: I don't get a prompt back when it happens either, so it
may be an error somewhere
Brainstorm says: I mean if you only add on not changing existing code you
will reach an end somewhere wont you ?
Rust says: well, like I said, you're always changing existing code ;-)
Lucas says: i think i remember fixing that say bug on conf rooms on avatar
Leto says: anyway
Leto says: anyone hears me right
Leto says: ;et's ignore this feature :)
Rust says: test
Leto says: there are more important hings
Leto says: Oh doh
Observation is being disabled.
Leto says: test?
Leto says: good :)
Rust says: woo!
Leto says: everyone happyt again ? :)
Deathknight says: test
Brainstorm says: Hmm ...
Leto says: this bloody codes doesn't check to see if anyone is in the
observation room
Leto says: and someone wrote a damn override to tell_room ;)
Leto says: ok
Leto says: so, i think there are enough people
Leto says: willing to develope here
Leto says: also
Skylight says: blah u guys are still talking about this conf_room ?
Leto says: it is still used as support site
Leto says: so, i have a feeling we could go on developing
Leto says: however, we need to have a goal
Leto says: someone 'fixing tmi-2' isnt enough i believe
Skylight says: let's rewrite the whole mudlib
Deathknight says: it's be enough for a preliminary outline
Leto says: bugfixes are nice, but if that's all we do, i am going to stop
Deathknight says: but would need sub-points
Skylight says: change the skill system to something else..right now the
skill system sucks
Deathknight has a few suggestions.
Deathknight says: for skills
Leto says: well, in my opinion the low level obs need a total redo
Brainstorm says: You might also want to improve a bit on combat and magic ;)
Lucas says: on avatar, i have reworked a bunch of stuff
Leto says: it's one big lump of inherits that try to fix a mudos bug that
isn't there anymore
Leto says: but
Leto says: if we look into the future
Rayjack says: which bug was that?
Leto says: we should aim for graphics support
Skylight says: what? graphics support?
Leto says: java, www
Deathknight says: fairly simple
Leto says: those are the things of the future
Brainstorm says: Hmm
Leto says: i am not yet talking about "graphical muds"
Brainstorm says: What about the amcp client ?
Leto says: those have never been successful
Lucas says: ah. ok
Deathknight says: tmi has always represented emerging technologies and
designs
Leto says: hold on
Deathknight says: I think it's appropriate it continues to do so
Leto says: basically, what i thnk should be the first goal and
Leto says: and whill need some recoding of current things
Leto says: is a good support for using netscape/java to mud
Leto says: i don't mean reinventing telnet in netscape
Leto says: i don't mean reinventing those "bsd" graphical muds
Leto says: but finctional graphical support to the text based game
Deathknight says: that system (BSXS) can only be taken so far
Leto says: well, anyone looked at alphaworlds?
Terry says: Have any of you checked out the Pueblo graphical client ?
Leto says: it just won't work yet
Leto says: nope
Skylight says: why don't we rewrite some backbones first before adding some
new stuff? err just my 2 cents
Brainstorm says: They only got DOS/Windows support so far
Leto says: Sky
Leto says: that's my point, we NEED to :)
Terry says: It uses html-ish tags to add graphics/sound support to text
based MUDs.
Leto says: now, who would like to help?
Leto says: terry: amcp is like that too
Deathknight raises his hand.
Leto says: we need t come up with somehing that uses browsers as best
possible
Rust says: problem is, all of these things are going to be done better far
before you get to them
Leto says: by ?
Rust says: I know Descartes will roll out a Java mud a lot sooner than you
think
Terry says: Heh
Leto says: well
Leto says: descartes implements what HE thinks is right
Leto says: it's usually not a broad support idea
Rust says: He's got a pretty good grasp, actually.
Leto says: it's his own static beliefs
Deathknight says: tends to have a specific focus
Leto says: i want to keep the tmi spirit in here
Leto says: broad support, lots of features
Deathknight says: great for that focus, but hard to transfer
Leto says: configuration
Leto says: also
Leto says: Descartes has a disadvantadge
Leto says: he tends to piss off people, and they own't work with him ;)
Leto says: anyway
Leto says: nuff about that
Deathknight says: working alone puts too much pressure on one person
Leto says: wether or not others will do
Leto says: i wasn't insulting descartes
Rust says: Well, that's the only reason NM only did better than TMI instead
of kicking its butt.
Leto says: descartes is a nice chap with just some views that are not mine
Deathknight says: good way of phrasing it leto
Leto says: anyway
Leto says: we need three things
Skylight says: hmm, so are we talking about descartes now? or about tmi? :)
Leto says: 1).. a good site
Leto says: 2)... inventory of things to do
Leto says: 3).. people, time and deadlines for those things
Lucas says: is this a good site, or not?
Leto says: about 1)
Leto says: Armando wants us to move out
Deathknight says: initially, people to at least organize the effort
Deathknight says: oh, joy
Leto says: this machine will be ripped apart in a few weeks
Brainstorm says: Ugh.
Leto says: unless we convince him to keep it
Deathknight says: how can we do that?
Brainstorm says: Who is him ?
Skylight says: Armando
Skylight says: i think
Leto says: yep
Leto says: Armando
Deathknight says: leto? what about your company?
Leto says: well
Leto says: the problem there is that i am on a pay-per-byte line
Deathknight says: or would it be too much of a strain?
Deathknight says: problem with europe
Leto says: as long as i don't have flat-reate i don't think i can sponsor it
Lucas says: would descartes let us use imaginary.com ?
Deathknight says: he did before
Rust says: Uh?
Deathknight says: but we can't reside there I don't think
Leto says: i don't think so
Rust says: I don't think he's got enough ram for another mud
Leto says: discworld , nm and foundation are enough as it is :)
Deathknight says: We could however probably convince him to serve the name
tmi.imaginary.com
Deathknight says: even if not on his machines
Leto says: think so too, after we talk to Buddha
Rust says: no probably in it ;-)
Leto says: but before i do that, i want a goal
Leto says: i want plans
Skylight says: if u guys cna't find a site..i can let u guys use my extra
site
Leto says: and i want people
Skylight says: not too fast though
Leto says: nod. we'll see what happens
Leto says: first
Leto says: i'd like to be convinced something will get off the ground
Deathknight says: no point if we don't organize properly
Leto says: i tried doing this before when i created team-aye
Leto says: lots of people said yes
Leto says: hardly anyone did anything
Lucas says: well,
Atlas says: normal problem
Leto says: so
Lucas says: i can try to do stuff
Leto says: i think we should try the following
Leto says: between now and two weeks
Leto says: try to get people, and try to get ideas
Leto says: we should make a list
Leto says: have meetings every week
Brainstorm says: Dont you think that some outlines should be put down now ?
Leto says: the outlines are hopefully in the conference room logfile :)
Deathknight says: should we try to outline now, or review existing code and
base outlines on that?
Brainstorm says: Like you said the movement to broader support of graphics,
perhaps even music ?
Leto says: yep
Leto says: sporry
Leto says: i meant:
Leto says: support for browsers
Deathknight says: at least the first part of the outline should be based on
existing code
Leto says: which means graphs , sound, html, anims
Leto says: true
Brainstorm says: nice ...
Leto says: the first goal is debug the lib
Leto says: and revamp some
Leto says: esp the messages stuff
Rust says: properties
Skylight says: messages stuff?
Deathknight says: I've done my own hacking in amylaar's driver to do a
better messaging system
Leto says: nod all the writes,tell_objs, tell_rooms, wraps,iwrap,shells,amcp
Brainstorm says: I guess the messages.h should be rmed and made new ;)
Leto says: screen layout is done throughout the lib
Deathknight says: leto: I could also put together a stream system based on
that
Leto says: it should be centralized
Deathknight says: IE, piping, output redirection
Leto says: sounds good, write some specs on it.
Leto says: /std/object is another one
Leto says: and , as rust said
Leto says: we should fix properties
Rust says: Bah, get some new features, Dk. ;-)
Brainstorm says: Hmm, what about better documentation ?
Leto says: that's always good :)
Brainstorm says: Doesnt Lima do source code created docs ?
Leto says: we'll need to write down what docs are missing, which are
outdated and fix those
Skylight says: nod those docs are fearsome
Leto says: we might even consider using a databased one
Leto says: and hook the driver to msql
Rust says: There's already a database package
Brainstorm says: m-sql sounds nice.
Leto says: write a auth module for the Apache web server
Rust says: Lima does, nod
Skylight says: FotD does, nod
Leto says: since we will want a real server to serve most stuff
Leto says: the db package is still buggy though ;)
Rust says: Heh, get your own ideas, FotD ;-)
Leto says: so
Leto says: let's write some code so we can supply all this
Leto says: boards are kinda outdated ;)
Rust says: well, come on, it's not like it wasn't our good idea ;-)
Leto says: and i don't think the IE news system is the way to go
Lucas says: i know most people hate boards, and want groups
Lucas says: but i think we should integrate boards with it
Leto says: tmi has it
Rust says: Lima's rocks ;-)
Leto says: but i don't think the user interface at ie is very good
Lucas says: because i really like having boards,
Skylight says: laf rust is doing a commercial here
Rust says: Nah
Leto says: i think lima is similar in that way :)
Lucas says: and it seems better for players
Rust says: Lima used to be the TMI-3 project tho
Leto says: it sucks :)
Rust says: no way, it's nothing like it...
Leto says: does it show a page of headers now ?
Leto says: so we ca skip things?
Rust says: It can easily, nod.
Rust says: read the help ;-)
Leto says: answer the Q please :)
Rust says: yes
Leto says: yes or no :)
Leto says: that's an improvement
Leto says: but we want it to interface with netscape too :)
Brainstorm says: Ugh
Leto says: ugh to make it yes :)
Leto says: remember though
Leto says: soon, we will have a generation of people who don't know
computers
Leto says: just know how to browse
Brainstorm says: Sadly but almost very true
Leto says: not sad really
Leto says: i don't know shit about cars :)
Brainstorm says: It is sad, if ppl say the Internet is WWW
Leto says: i just want them to drive me around
Brainstorm says: But its the way you do it
Leto says: opk
Leto says: apart from us
Brainstorm says: You dont want one way consumation, you want intelligent two
way communication
Leto says: there are a couple of people who couldn't bere here and shoed
intrest
Leto says: did you say "java" brainstorm ? :)
Brainstorm just got java installed here ;)
Leto says: so, i'd say that's our most important goal for now, inventorize
goals, and people
Leto says: So
Brainstorm says: Might a mailing list help in the beginning ? Timezones and
such ?
Leto says: anyone ?
Lucas says: i think mailing list would be very helpful
Lucas says: i volunteer to help work on stuff
Leto says: i ca support one in a few days
Brainstorm says: *nod*
Leto says: when my domain gets propagated to the net
Brainstorm says: YOu can afford a domain ? ;)
Leto says: my company can :)
Brainstorm says: I would like to help out also ;)
Lucas says: i'm not the best coder, but i will do what i can
Leto says: good :)
Leto says: so, our first tasks are settled then
Lucas says: but i also need to devote time on my mud
Leto says: now, how will we go about writing down the plans?
Leto says: most of us do
Lucas says: i know
Brainstorm says: Somebody taking the logs and writing a precy
Leto says: but i mean
Leto says: how are we going to submit ideas
Leto says: and how are we going to submit code
Brainstorm says: That might be a problem ;)
Rust says: boggle, no one ever posted on that old TMI list that is probably
still up
Leto says: not a problem
Brainstorm says: Leto, I guess you should have experience with former tmi
Rust says: Not since we died
Leto says: well
Brainstorm would perfer shell accounts ;)
Leto says: with tmi, most stuff was mailed
Leto says: and not a lot was discussed
Leto says: people who were trusted got access
Leto says: and hacked their way into code
Leto says: withot much structure
Leto says: shell accounts would be nice
Rust says: And who's giving them out? =)
Leto says: esp if we're going to need aux. programs
Brainstorm says: or perhaps angeftp with a modifed ftp server
Leto says: mud ft works fine ;)
Leto says: but
Leto says: if we agree o using msql
Leto says: and put our character base in there
Leto says: we can hack wu-ftpd :)
Brainstorm says: Sorry ?
Leto says: eg if we store characters not in .o files put in a database
Leto says: we can then use the database with other programs as well
Leto says: like a real www server and a real ftp server
Rust says: I fear becomind a moo ;-)
Leto says: as long as you odn't fear we're becoming unix :)
Rust says: No, that happened a long time ago =)
Leto says: actually if we have a dedicated machine, logins might be the way
to go :)
Rust says: So come on, say something concrete =)
Brainstorm says: If I had a machine I could set one up ;)
Leto says: shaddup?
Atlas says: I hacked /bin/login and bash on my computer so you can chroot to
the mud directory
Leto says: concrete enough ? :)
Atlas says: kinda like a wizshell but no access checking as of yet
Atlas says: could be an alternative to normal shell accounts
Leto says: i hacked the linux kernel to allowe port 23 to be used by a non
root process :)
Brainstorm says: ?
Leto says: so i can run the mud on a regular telnet port without ithaving to
run as root :)
Brainstorm says: Ah forget that ? *evil grin*
Leto says: okay
Leto says: so, i'd say the first step is people dropping ideas like crazy :)
Leto says: and filing a list of bugs and revamps we desperately need
Lucas says: ok
Lucas says: will someone take notes than?
Lucas says: now? or should we do it in a board like way?
Leto says: i think we sould prolly for now make two news commands that are
like 'bugs'
Leto says: prob the easiest
Leto says: then, at a meeting discussing the submitions
Leto says: and, if neccessary, assign soneone on the implementation :)
Leto says: oki
Leto says: i'll make the nec things for thsi tomorrow
Leto says: and I'll make the necc anouncements
Brainstorm says: Uh, anyone care for a stupid question ?
Leto says: shoot :)
Brainstorm says: Is it a bug that in the user object a query("name")
sometimes gives 0 and such ? and that a this_object->query("name")
solves it ?
Leto says: probably :)
Leto says: in fact
Leto says: this is a mjor design point
Rayjack says: quite incredible that solving it
Leto says: deathknight: /d/Conf/logs)
Rust says: That should never ever happen, as calls are all virtual in LPC
Atlas says: it happens tho
Rust says: Well, probably a relic of some ancient driver bug
Leto says: exactly
Leto says: the whole inheritance of base obs is a hack really
Deathknight hates coming in on the middle of a discussion
Deathknight says: why do you say that leto?
Leto says: it was made to fix a bug in inheritance code
Rust says: yeah, it's going to be fun to watch someoneseperate stuff out
into a decent inheritance structure without jumping off a bridge
Leto says: a lot of stubs got insertd
Leto says: to prevent mudos from making mistakes
Leto says: then they needed to be overridden
Deathknight says: ah, stubs you're referring to?
Leto says: among other things
Deathknight says: thought you meant the concept of having base object
Leto says: nono
Rust says: 1600 line user.c is not a good thing
Leto says: but some things are badly done
Deathknight says: agreed rust
Leto says: what was i asayig?
Leto says: Oh right
Leto says: mudos added a lot of features
Leto says: which we hardly use
Leto says: eg: mudos can now keep track of obs and their relative locations
a lot better then we can at the mudlib level
Rust says: like real function pointers, classes, decent parsing, etc, etc,
etc
Leto says: there are other examples
Brainstorm says: Though classes are still a hack ?
Rust says: no
Leto says: nono
Rust says: they rock
Leto says: classes are good
Leto says: we should replace our proprties with it:)
Rust says: they're the same as structs in C, though, not like C++ classes.
Objects are like C++ classes
Brainstorm says: Hmm, I remember them being a union or so in MUDos
Leto says: anyway
Leto says: I'll make the necc steps in order for people to submit
ideas,bugs,codee
Leto says: then we should take off :)
Leto says: let's get most of the bugs out in 3 weeks :)
Brainstorm says: You'll schedule a next meeting or write mail ?
Leto says: so we can concentrate on redesigning :)
Lucas says: noe questions,
Leto says: well
Lucas says: err. one question
Leto says: i wass thinking of one set time
Lucas says: these idea or wahever we are going to submit
Leto says: so we can remember it easily ;)
Lucas says: are these things like ideas for skill modifications or what?
Leto says: not that speicific for now
Rust says: or rewriting 99% of the mudlib? ;-)
Leto says: the only real explicit things sould be bugs
Lucas says: ok
Brainstorm says: I would like to handle movement differently also ;)
Leto says: agreed
Brainstorm says: and make the combat limb orientated *smirk*
Leto says: lots of things need to be done totally different
Leto says: careful
Lucas says: cause tigycho and i have a HUGE list of ideas we have
Leto says: getting into details again :)
Leto says: cool
Lucas says: but thats more detailed things
Leto says: submit it :)
Brainstorm says: Was just joking
Deathknight says: I don't think we should necissarily impose things like
limb systems on people
Deathknight says: but may have it as an option
Lucas says: like last names, limbs, etc
Leto says: you'd have to use body parts
Leto says: like earth :)
Brainstorm says: like SILKE ;)
Leto begins to promote Earthmud :)
Leto says: ;ets' tear down tmi and all work at earth :)
Lucas says: so let me get stuff straight for me now
Brainstorm says: Its only annyoing if you loose both legs
Brainstorm says: and cant see a healer
Leto says: lucas?
Lucas says: ok,
Lucas says: first, we're fixing bugs
Lucas says: and that is in 3 weeks
Lucas says: then, we'll regroup and plan again?
Leto says: well
Leto says: i think we'll need to tackle some redesign questions
Leto says: since some bugs are due to design
Rust says: like security
Leto says: but i think a new release that's bugfree would bea nice start
Brainstorm likes security ;)
Deathknight says: security?
Deathknight says: what's that?
Rust says: Too bad it doesn't work ;-)
Brainstorm says: Dreaming leto ?
Leto says: rust
Leto says: show me ;)
Leto says: but
Rust says: I still have a list of 10 holes somewhere that I doubt were fixed
Deathknight says: a new release, probably 1.3 final or 1.4, doesn't change
functionality so much as just a major bug fix
Deathknight says: then we can start redesigning
Rust says: the first time I found like 13 in a matter of hours
Leto says: domini had some great ideas about changing access and privss :)
Deathknight says: so did ellery leto
Brainstorm says: Likke the calling stack ?
Deathknight says: yet I think only about 4 people understood the mathematics
of his security system
Leto says: i remember i made it to being called Beek at lima too :)
Leto says: well
Leto says: security isn't a very big issue as some people make it really
Leto says: a fairly decent system holds back 99.9%
Leto says: and some people you just want to trust.,
Rust says: sure it is. I've seen 4 or 5 muds at least get completely wiped
Deathknight says: tmi's only holds back about 85% or so though
Leto says: backups ?
Rust says: No, most people who are unix newbies aren't going to keep backups
Brainstorm says: Rust, it's easier to get in the OS than in the MUD if you
secure the MUD, so what ?
Rust says: Not really
Leto says: Rust, that's a point about certain people who shuldn't run a mud
Rust says: It's much easier to get onto TMI
Deathknight says: and they usually don't have much effort into their systems
anyway
Rust says: then you shouldn't be providing software to them
Brainstorm says: Ah, show me a unix system, and most ppl can show you a root
shell
Rust says: well, effort isn't the important part
Leto says: not true
Leto says: i am not saying GNU shouldn';t make C compilers cause they can be
abused
Rayjack says: i've only seen 1 tmi mud get wiped, and it was done by a hole
created on that mud
Rust says: Sure it is, I've seen tons of systems that have seen a lot of
effort that didn't stop a bowling ball
Leto says: but clueless people shouldn't use things they don't know shit of
Deathknight says: few tmi mudlibs are open to players either
Leto says: most lp muds aren't open to players :)
Leto says: only diku's and tiny's are open to the public ;)
Deathknight says: more than tmi
Deathknight says: this discussion is getting on a tangent
Leto says: anbd the moo's ;)
Leto says: but those are just irc interfaces ;)
Leto says: oki
Brainstorm says: I would like an AI for the npc also, is Blue still around ?
Leto says: let's call it a quit for now
Leto says: yep
Leto says: Blue is around ;)
Rust says: Don't expect to see him do much though =)
Brainstorm says: So Blue shall make it.
Leto says: but his AI project is in the freezer
Leto says: he hasn't coded on it since he was at my palce ;)
Deathknight says: I actually had an ai project on Shadowriver
Brainstorm says: You should have kept him there then
Deathknight says: the whole mudlib was going to be ai
Leto says: actually Blue is heavily into java these days
Leto says: we might convince him to work out with the java client part ;)
Leto says: shadowriver?
Leto says: didn't that mud live for a short time ?
Brainstorm says: Sounds like this is getting quite complicated with all that
client stuff
Deathknight says: about a year leto
Deathknight says: I took it down, lacked time to work on it
Leto says: ahh nod
Deathknight says: got a RL job
Leto says: well
Leto says: brainstorm
Leto says: it's actually not that bad
Leto says: since you can just let your code reutrn urls :)
Deathknight says: relative ones
Brainstorm says: Sorry, I was not thinking properly ;)
Leto says: :)
Brainstorm says: Dont comment on that, please.
Leto says: oki
Leto says: so, next meeting next week?
Brainstorm says: Hmm
Leto says: let's spread the word ;0
Brainstorm says: Same day ?
Lucas says: i think same day, same time
Brainstorm says: What about Friday or Sunday ?
Atlas says: Hm.. what was the time, actually? :)
Leto says: fine with me
Brainstorm says: There is a german wide mud convention on saturday
Deathknight says: time was 1 hour 10 mins ago
Lucas says: fridays would be ok, but not sunday
Leto says: hmm
Leto says: fridays would prob do too
Brainstorm says: Fine ;)
Deathknight says: not for me
Leto says: although i often have an earth meeting on friday
Deathknight is gone all friday evening
Leto says: let' stick to sat for now ?
Lucas says: speaking of mud conventions (brainstorm)
Brainstorm says: I'll read the logs ;)
Lucas says: is anyone going to the one here in the states?
Rust says: Oh yes
Atlas says: when/where?
Lucas says: cool
Brainstorm says: Its about building an association to support MUDs in
Germany
Rust says: All of Lima except Ohara will be there
Leto says: i might
Leto says: but i want to know more first
Lucas says: yeah
Lucas says: i live in minneapolis
Leto says: i am not going to pay afew thousand for a happy camping trip
Lucas says: so it shouldn't be too hard for me (unless i'm gone)
Leto says: i want at least some presentations
Atlas says: when and where is the convention
Rust says: I know I'm presenting at least one thing
Deathknight says: where is it?
Leto says: and the mailinglist fr mud-96 is deadish :)
Lucas says: it's sometime around the end of july i THINK, in minneapolis,
minnesota
Rust says: not a publication for my CV, but hey
Lucas says: minneapolis or st. paul
Leto says: it's 26-29 july i tjhink
Leto says: my bd's on the 24th, and my dad's the 27th
Deathknight says: no way I could make that
Leto says: really iritating
Leto says: i told descartes anytime but that week
Leto says: guess i am not welcome ;)
Rust says: you're right, Leto ;-)
Atlas says: uh.. far away, even if I get the job in NY
Logging is being disabled.
Leto is moderating.
The floor is open for discussion.
The room is not locked.
Local host time is Sun May 5 01:37:09 1996.
The following users are in attendance:
Atlas
Terry
Deathknight
Rayjack
Rust
Skylight
Brainstorm
Lucas
Leto
