<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project) --> <!--X-From-R13: [vpunry Vburafrr <zvpunryNznvafgernz.arg> --> <!--X-Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:26:06 +0000 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 351228B2.D9DE963A#mainstream,net --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: 199803192304.PAA35086#under,engr.sgi.com --> <!--X-Reference: 351167CD.15020695#sparta,mainstream.net --> <!--X-Reference: 7eafal3euq.fsf#zesoi,fer.hr --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:michael#mainstream,net"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00787.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00790.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00786.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00796.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00788">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00788">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00788">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Michael Hohensee <<A HREF="mailto:michael#mainstream,net">michael#mainstream,net</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 03:28:34 -0500</LI> <LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:michael#corinth,mainstream.net">michael#corinth,mainstream.net</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> Miroslav Silovic wrote: > > Michael Hohensee <michael#sparta,mainstream.net> writes: > > > Of course, the POVRAY renderer does take time to work, and wouldn't be > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > This is gross understatement. :) While 2-3 seconds are quite > acceptable for a game, 1-60 minutes are not. > Heh, only if you want the highest quality in your image. I'm talking about images which take 4-10 seconds to display. Every .pov file that I ever saw could be traced in under 10 seconds if you wanted a little 80x80 (or thereabouts) image. > > suitable for real-time graphics unless there is a way to have it > > lower the quality of the rendering to a point where it took a > > fraction of a second to finish. If we're not desperate for > > real-time images, however, this seems to be the logical solution. > > POVray is slow for the following reasons: > > 1) bad acceleration algorithm. They can only use bounding boxes > but not octree or bsp tree. Unfortuantely this is also hard > to fix because POV uses unbounded primitives, and you can't > take those away because POV's CSGs won't work with patches > (not to mention backward compatibility) > > 2) POV is a raytracer. It's very hard to speed up raytracing > past certain point - that's why games use zbuffering instead. > Note that the only places where you /need/ raytracing are > reflective/refractive surfaces (and even there, you could > cheat by using environment maps). > > <ShamelessPlug> > Feel free to take the code from my renderer for both zbuffering and > /really/ accelerated raytracing. Gah, now I need to speed up the > bloody thing for scenes with fewer than 1,000 polygons (as raytracing > becomes the low overhead operation in the low-complexity case, when > procedural textures and image pre/postprocessing take over... 320x240 > low-quality previews take 2-3 seconds with 10 objects, 10-20 with > 1000, using raytracing, and with zbuffering everything gets faster. I > solved problems with quality loss with zbuffering and as a result, you > get exactly the same image). > > (renderer: <A HREF="http://petra.zesoi.fer.hr/~silovic/sart">http://petra.zesoi.fer.hr/~silovic/sart</A>, and I announced it > recently on Freshmeet site) > </ShamelessPlug> Heh, ok, I'll look it over. :) -- Michael Hohensee michael#mainstream,net <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/9025/">http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/9025/</A> Finger me for my PGP Public Key, or use: <A HREF="http://sparta.mainstream.net/michael/pgpkey.txt">http://sparta.mainstream.net/michael/pgpkey.txt</A> </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00771" HREF="msg00771.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> J C Lawrence <claw#under,engr.sgi.com></LI></UL></LI> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00773" HREF="msg00773.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Michael Hohensee <michael#sparta,mainstream.net></LI></UL></LI> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00781" HREF="msg00781.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Miroslav Silovic <silovic#zesoi,fer.hr></LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00787.html">Dynamic Loading of Modules</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00790.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks)</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00786.html">3D engines for MUDs</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00796.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00788"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00788"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00772" HREF="msg00772.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</A></strong>, Michael Hohensee <a href="mailto:michael#mainstream,net">michael#mainstream,net</a>, Thu 19 Mar 1998, 23:30 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00773" HREF="msg00773.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</A></strong>, Michael Hohensee <a href="mailto:michael#sparta,mainstream.net">michael#sparta,mainstream.net</a>, Thu 19 Mar 1998, 23:42 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00781" HREF="msg00781.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</A></strong>, Miroslav Silovic <a href="mailto:silovic#zesoi,fer.hr">silovic#zesoi,fer.hr</a>, Fri 20 Mar 1998, 09:01 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00786" HREF="msg00786.html">3D engines for MUDs</A></strong>, Niklas Elmqvist <a href="mailto:d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se">d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se</a>, Fri 20 Mar 1998, 11:30 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00788" HREF="msg00788.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</A></strong>, Michael Hohensee <a href="mailto:michael#mainstream,net">michael#mainstream,net</a>, Fri 20 Mar 1998, 13:26 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00796" HREF="msg00796.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</A></strong>, Michael Hohensee <a href="mailto:michael#mainstream,net">michael#mainstream,net</a>, Fri 20 Mar 1998, 21:15 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00798" HREF="msg00798.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project)</A></strong>, Michael Hohensee <a href="mailto:michael#sparta,mainstream.net">michael#sparta,mainstream.net</a>, Fri 20 Mar 1998, 21:47 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </ul> </ul> </ul> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00553" HREF="msg00553.html">Position sorting</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user1,inficad.com">nightfall#user1,inficad.com</a>, Sun 22 Feb 1998, 13:17 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00643" HREF="msg00643.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Position sorting</A></strong>, coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Sat 28 Feb 1998, 05:04 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>