09 Jul, 2009, Kayle wrote in the 41st comment:
Votes: 0
Wait. Crat posts it and people read it, And I post the same thing back on page one, in post #3 and no one reads it…? Wtf.
10 Jul, 2009, Dubstack wrote in the 42nd comment:
its not that I didn't read your post and read what you did I just thought you link would send me to some coding site that I knew nothing about.
10 Jul, 2009, Chris Bailey wrote in the 43rd comment:
Dubstack, if you decide to use one of the Ruby codebases that are around, namely Teensymud or Rocketmud, I will personally help you on the forums and through PM's. We have a new Ruby programming language forum with people more than happy to help and besides, it's way easier to learn than C++ or C =)
10 Jul, 2009, Fizban wrote in the 44th comment:
Dubstack said:
don't post links to how to code it is points cause I want understand it.
If you wanted to understand it you'd understand it. You might be too lazy to want to understand it, but if you gave it an honest attempt you could definitely do it. Unfortunately I don't think most (or any actually) of us care to give handouts to people too lazy to give fixing things on their own MUD an honest attempt.
10 Jul, 2009, Runter wrote in the 45th comment:
Fizban said:
If you wanted to understand it you'd understand it. You might be too lazy to want to understand it, but if you gave it an honest attempt you could definitely do it. Unfortunately I don't think most (or any actually) of us care to give handouts to people too lazy to give fixing things on their own MUD an honest attempt.
Dubstack said:
don't post links to how to code it is points cause I want understand it.
If you wanted to understand it you'd understand it. You might be too lazy to want to understand it, but if you gave it an honest attempt you could definitely do it. Unfortunately I don't think most (or any actually) of us care to give handouts to people too lazy to give fixing things on their own MUD an honest attempt.
Here here, har har
10 Jul, 2009, bbailey wrote in the 46th comment:
Fizban said:
If you wanted to understand it you'd understand it. You might be too lazy to want to understand it, but if you gave it an honest attempt you could definitely do it. Unfortunately I don't think most (or any actually) of us care to give handouts to people too lazy to give fixing things on their own MUD an honest attempt.
Dubstack said:
don't post links to how to code it is points cause I want understand it.
If you wanted to understand it you'd understand it. You might be too lazy to want to understand it, but if you gave it an honest attempt you could definitely do it. Unfortunately I don't think most (or any actually) of us care to give handouts to people too lazy to give fixing things on their own MUD an honest attempt.
Even if you have no intention of ever fully learning to code, it's usually a good idea to at least try and gain a basic understanding of your codebase (e.g., CoffeeMud), it's implementation language, (e.g., Java), and it's implementation paradigm, (e.g., OOP). It will aid you tremendously when communicating with your developer(s) about changes you wish implemented, and understanding the limitations and alternatives provided to you when your developers can't (for whatever reason) implement exactly what you wish.
10 Jul, 2009, Dubstack wrote in the 47th comment:
If my developer can't do something it's all right. Ever super good idea has to have a limit to what can and can't be done. funny how java and coffee is like a drink and a code lol sorry lol anyhow what is OOP? I found a Final Fantasy mud on here to download its C++ but I need to get a compiler did that compiler doesn't run on windows but if you like you can read what I put up not sure if it will help or not http://www.mudbytes.net/index.php?a=topi...
10 Jul, 2009, Cratylus wrote in the 48th comment:
Dubstack said:
I see you have wrote out a very good and long desc of what to ask and say to someone. I'm very mature so I can understand what you are trying to say in the letter, I agree on the "Your awesome idea is one of 10,000" I agree am sure millions of people have made a mud with the same basic idea as mine.
Ok. I'm going to count on that maturity now. I'm going to
say things that might sound mean, but they are well-intended.
So hang on.
Dubstack, you are wholly unprepared to run a mud. Your
recent discovery that you can't run a codebase because
it needs a compiler and Windows doesn't have one, along
with your statements that you don't know anything about
code, tells me that you completely lack the technical
knowledge to even know how to get a proper project running.
Dubstack, you are wholly unfit to run a mud. It is one
thing not to be good at coding. It is completely a different
thing to insist on not learning how to code. I am sure there
are many good muds with admins that don't know code well.
But those admins have a lot of other things going for them.
You don't. Your lack of coding skill and your determination
not to improve it give you a solid F, given that you
bring basically nothing else to the table.
Your English composition skills are horrendous.
You appear to have next to zero experience running a mud.
You appear to have next to zero experience with programming.
There is no reason to believe your mud will last one day.
I firmly believe that anyone who helps you will be wasting their time.
This is because you are exactly the wrong person to run a mud.
I guess that sounds kind of harsh. However, I think you've
been missing the point. And I am now giving you that point
as clearly and simply as I can. I apologize if it is too harsh.
If you absolutely have to run a mud, get yourself a codebase
that requires minimal expertise, like CoffeeMUD.
But what you really should do is get over your problem with
coding, and learn how to do what you want to do for yourself.
Join an existing mud as an apprentice, and learn as you
help someone else. Eventually you'll get good enough to
make your own mud.
Nobody is going to code your mud for you. Not until you show
it won't be a waste of their time.
Code your own mud once you're no longer an utter beginner.
-Crat
10 Jul, 2009, Zeno wrote in the 49th comment:
A must read before starting a MUD:
http://www.gammon.com.au/forum/bbshowpos...
http://www.gammon.com.au/forum/bbshowpos...
Quote
How is the Best way to start a MUD? By playing of course. Search for your codebase
by testing them out. Once you have found a decent codebase, that you enjoy, play
with that codebase for at least 3 months or until you have learned the codebase from
a players perspective. Then see if that MUD is hiring. If they are, apply for a building
position. DO NOT go to 20 different MUDs. Stick with only one. Once you have building down,
request another position. You should be in that MUD's staff for at least a year. Work your
way to the top, learning everything from your staffs' point of view.This will allow you to
make more sound decisions as an Implementer. After everything, You should have had at
least a year of Staff experience on a productive MUD with a decent sized pbase. If you
can't accomplish this then chances are that you are not ready to run your own MUD.
by testing them out. Once you have found a decent codebase, that you enjoy, play
with that codebase for at least 3 months or until you have learned the codebase from
a players perspective. Then see if that MUD is hiring. If they are, apply for a building
position. DO NOT go to 20 different MUDs. Stick with only one. Once you have building down,
request another position. You should be in that MUD's staff for at least a year. Work your
way to the top, learning everything from your staffs' point of view.This will allow you to
make more sound decisions as an Implementer. After everything, You should have had at
least a year of Staff experience on a productive MUD with a decent sized pbase. If you
can't accomplish this then chances are that you are not ready to run your own MUD.
10 Jul, 2009, Runter wrote in the 50th comment:
I think Crat is being duly harsh with you.
This would be like wanting to convince investors with no business plan, no experience, and poor communication skills to put money in your project.
No, this would be like doing that while telling said investors you have no business plan, no experience, and poor communication skills—And
that you don't intend to learn how any said business works; You just want someone to give you capital.
We may not be dealing with money, but we certainly are dealing with something valuable. And you're certainly asking them to give it
to you for free. You better have a very convincing pitch, and it better not be "do for me what I cannot do for myself." That's pathetic.
And until you can do that you shouldn't even embarrass yourself the way you have on this thread. It's insulting to anyone reading it
who does know what they are doing.
This would be like wanting to convince investors with no business plan, no experience, and poor communication skills to put money in your project.
No, this would be like doing that while telling said investors you have no business plan, no experience, and poor communication skills—And
that you don't intend to learn how any said business works; You just want someone to give you capital.
We may not be dealing with money, but we certainly are dealing with something valuable. And you're certainly asking them to give it
to you for free. You better have a very convincing pitch, and it better not be "do for me what I cannot do for myself." That's pathetic.
And until you can do that you shouldn't even embarrass yourself the way you have on this thread. It's insulting to anyone reading it
who does know what they are doing.
10 Jul, 2009, tphegley wrote in the 51st comment:
I agree with Crat and Runter. I played a mud for 5 years before I got on staff as a coder. In those 5 years of playing I was always tinkering with smaugwiz, smaug, and smaugfuss to teach myself how to code. I lurked on Nick Gammon's site, here, and smaugfuss site. I'm still nowhere near good at coding, but I'm competent enough at it to understand my limits.
You need to teach yourself. No ifs, ands, or buts, about it. You gotta do it if you want to run a mud.
You need to teach yourself. No ifs, ands, or buts, about it. You gotta do it if you want to run a mud.
10 Jul, 2009, Hades_Kane wrote in the 52nd comment:
I disagree.
I've seen numerous people in the past that had NO business running a MUD, who had poor building skills, worse people skills, and only knew how to change damage messaging and boot up the MUD in regards to code. Had no design document, no direction, would change designs in the middle of systems being worked on, tried to cram way too much into the game, wanted to try to polish things before the core was finished, lacked dedication, ordered everyone else around, had unrealistic expectations including firing coders/builders if they didn't complete things according to an unrealistic timeframe, etc. have great success in luring builders, coders, players, and all sorts to their game. I've seen games like this actually have a higher builder rate, with faster code changes, and more players than some very well ran, responsible games.
So I think its unfair to tell the guy he won't be able to find anyone to do it for him.
What I think is fair to tell him is that he won't find anyone reliable, skilled, or dedicated to his project. I think there are plenty so-called "coders" that would probably be willing to help him out.
The aforementioned game also had a high turn over rate of coders, builders, and players. The game was terribly buggy, lacked any sort of real vision, and was a mess. It didn't last long.
Consider it this way… would you want a coder that would respond to an advertisement like that? It's like that saying where that guy said "I wouldn't want to be a part of any club that would have me as a member."
If you aren't picky about what type of coder or person you attract, then you should be fine carrying on the way you are. I guess it all boils down to what your goals are.
I think it might be an important thing to consider 'why' you are wanting to start a MUD. Do you feel you have some great ideas that no one has done before? Do you feel that you are someone who is quite well suited to run a MUD? Do you have a ton of creativity that you want to get out in that way? Those are some of the reasons I think are good for starting games. If you can't answer yes to those, then I think you might need to consider and figure out what it is exactly you hope to get out of starting a game, and then maybe see if there is a game out there that can help you meet that.
Take a moment to consider why. Once you have it figured out, if you let us know, we might be able to help further direct you.
But take it from someone who had enough people flake on him that he spent a few years teaching himself how to code to realize his dream…. running a MUD is a hard, thankless job that entails a lot of work, and you have to be ready to work very, very hard for a long time if you want anything worth being proud of.
I've seen numerous people in the past that had NO business running a MUD, who had poor building skills, worse people skills, and only knew how to change damage messaging and boot up the MUD in regards to code. Had no design document, no direction, would change designs in the middle of systems being worked on, tried to cram way too much into the game, wanted to try to polish things before the core was finished, lacked dedication, ordered everyone else around, had unrealistic expectations including firing coders/builders if they didn't complete things according to an unrealistic timeframe, etc. have great success in luring builders, coders, players, and all sorts to their game. I've seen games like this actually have a higher builder rate, with faster code changes, and more players than some very well ran, responsible games.
So I think its unfair to tell the guy he won't be able to find anyone to do it for him.
What I think is fair to tell him is that he won't find anyone reliable, skilled, or dedicated to his project. I think there are plenty so-called "coders" that would probably be willing to help him out.
The aforementioned game also had a high turn over rate of coders, builders, and players. The game was terribly buggy, lacked any sort of real vision, and was a mess. It didn't last long.
Consider it this way… would you want a coder that would respond to an advertisement like that? It's like that saying where that guy said "I wouldn't want to be a part of any club that would have me as a member."
If you aren't picky about what type of coder or person you attract, then you should be fine carrying on the way you are. I guess it all boils down to what your goals are.
I think it might be an important thing to consider 'why' you are wanting to start a MUD. Do you feel you have some great ideas that no one has done before? Do you feel that you are someone who is quite well suited to run a MUD? Do you have a ton of creativity that you want to get out in that way? Those are some of the reasons I think are good for starting games. If you can't answer yes to those, then I think you might need to consider and figure out what it is exactly you hope to get out of starting a game, and then maybe see if there is a game out there that can help you meet that.
Take a moment to consider why. Once you have it figured out, if you let us know, we might be able to help further direct you.
But take it from someone who had enough people flake on him that he spent a few years teaching himself how to code to realize his dream…. running a MUD is a hard, thankless job that entails a lot of work, and you have to be ready to work very, very hard for a long time if you want anything worth being proud of.
10 Jul, 2009, Kayle wrote in the 53rd comment:
Hades_Kane said:
I've seen numerous people in the past that had NO business running a MUD, who had poor building skills, worse people skills, and only knew how to change damage messaging and boot up the MUD in regards to code.
He can't even do any of that from what he's demonstrated here.
10 Jul, 2009, Chris Bailey wrote in the 54th comment:
Well I'm sure you guys successfully scared him away.
10 Jul, 2009, Dubstack wrote in the 55th comment:
Nope I am still trying They are right I do need to learn but to learn I need a teach and yeah your going to say get a book and here is why that is wrong books can't tell you in person or give a better understanding than a person so it is better to learn from someone than to just fuck with the mud than it dies you lose all your work redo everything find out what you are doing wrong redo something over and over again would make anyone quit. What am trying to do is basic am asking for a coder who will help me and teach me what I can do ain't great ain't even close to being poor but it's all I can do so that means I can learn so teach me. All so thanks for sticking up for me guys
11 Jul, 2009, Chris Bailey wrote in the 56th comment:
You should really go and download the Ruby (One Click Windows Installer) and get it setup and working on your computer. Try out a couple of the examples at the Ruby website for an hour or two. When you decide that you like it, and you will, come back here and download RocketMud. Once you get that much done, I will help you make some basic changes to the way rocket mud works.
11 Jul, 2009, tphegley wrote in the 57th comment:
Dubstack said:
Nope I am still trying They are right I do need to learn but to learn I need a teach and yeah your going to say get a book and here is why that is wrong books can't tell you in person or give a better understanding than a person so it is better to learn from someone than to just fuck with the mud than it dies you lose all your work redo everything find out what you are doing wrong redo something over and over again would make anyone quit. What am trying to do is basic am asking for a coder who will help me and teach me what I can do ain't great ain't even close to being poor but it's all I can do so that means I can learn so teach me. All so thanks for sticking up for me guys
That's why you make backups. Get your game running, and let it be. Build some on there and then have a different coding port so you can learn what to do. You learn by doing, and most often, you learn by failing. It's when you figure out WHY you failed is when you get it right and can start moving in the right direction. When you have questions regarding something come on here. Don't be like 'Do this for me, create this for me', but ask HOW it could be done and start making an effort to show that you are trying. People are more willing to help.
If you're sincere in trying, you will find this place VERY helpful, but until then, it's a lot harder for them to put much time into you.
11 Jul, 2009, Idealiad wrote in the 58th comment:
Dubstack said:
What am trying to do is basic am asking for a coder who will help me and teach me what I can do ain't great ain't even close to being poor but it's all I can do so that means I can learn so teach me.
This isn't directed at Dubstack directly, but this attitude seems like a real problem for someone who wants to develop a mud.
I too used to think I needed special study groups and mentors to learn things and stay motivated.
Those things are good to have, but they are not what you really need.
Motivation comes from within.
We are your teachers, and you are our teacher.
Good luck.
11 Jul, 2009, Dubstack wrote in the 59th comment:
I understand that but if I don't know how to back a code up or even really code at all it doesn't help me. I'm wanting to put forth the time and really do it. I'm asking for help so I can learn if people are willing to help they don't have to hold my hand am not asking for you to hold my hand am asking hey i got a problem with my code it want boot I have no clue where the compile is and if under a makefile follow link above to find what it says anyhow am just saying a little help will go a long ways with me.
11 Jul, 2009, Chris Bailey wrote in the 60th comment:
I am still offering my assistance in the world of Ruby. Have you done what I've suggested yet? Download the software that I mentioned earlier and you will have a mud running within the hour, and then I will start helping you add the features you want. Last chance =)
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