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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: (fwd) Re: POLL: Games ruined by bad players (Player killers, tank rushers etc)</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: (fwd) Re: POLL: Games ruined by bad players (Player killers, tank rushers etc)</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Marian Griffith <<A HREF="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:40:40 +0100 (BST)</LI>
<LI><em>Delivery-date</em>: Tue Apr 28 13:27:15 1998</LI>
<LI><em>Delivery-date</em>: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:27:15 -0700</LI>
<LI><em>Envelope-to</em>: claw#kanga,nu</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Sender</em>: "Petidomo List Agent,,,," <<A HREF="mailto:petidomo#kanga,nu">petidomo#kanga,nu</A>></LI>
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<PRE>
On Mon 27 Apr, J C Lawrence wrote:
> <bow>
> BTW, I heartily agree.
> From: cat#bga,com (Dr. Cat)
> Subject: Re: POLL: Games ruined by bad players (Player killers,
> tank rushers etc)
> J C Lawrence (claw#under,engr.sgi.com) wrote:
> : Understood. Others will and do view such cases as a chance to model
> : something in their own image. You are looking for DisneyWorld.
> : Others prefer the outback.
> I would contend that the games that are out there, both free and
> commercial, provide ample opportunities to visit "the outback" for
> those that prefer it. And I also feel that there's very little for
> those that are looking for "DisneyWorld" - or most other "non-outback"
> types of environments that people might want.
> I think it's probably somewhat natural that the majority of the "early
> settlers" in online gaming are the the type of people that want to "tame
> the frontier". But in the long run, once the masses arrive, I think
> more people will want to spend their time and money on the "resorts" -
> just like in the real world.
This is similar to the point I have repeatedly (and with little success)
tried to get across to muds I have played when it came to allowing PK or
PSteal. That even as players have the right to engage in such activities
others have an equal right not to be bothered by it. And that it there-
for is not right to put the burden of preventing being harassed by other
players entirely on the potential victim.
> Our game has the basic principle that nobody can do anything to you
> without your consent. While this is not how real life works overall,
> [snip] efforts to
> set up environments that provide that level of freedom and safety are
> generally looked upon as desirable and valuable.
I entirely agree with this, but do not forget the opposite position.
For those players who enjoy the thrill of a 'free for all' game you
should at least look into ways to give that to them as well, as long
as there is no way for the groups to cross accidentally.
> I think the millions of non-gamers out there in particular will prefer
> the "safer" places rather than the "wild and wooly" ones. Even if
> they're not called "games", but just "environments".
An adrenaline rush only is enjoyable for so long while an virtual com-
munity can entertain you for a much longer time...
> Even when it comes to games, there's an awful lot of people who play
> the ones that don't involve violence and killing (Monopoly, [snip]
> etc.) rather than the ones that do (like 9 out of 10 computer games).
We have had a discussion along these lines on the list half a year ago.
It did not arrive at any kind of conclusion (surprise ;) before it de-
generated into a fuzy argument about how attractive the computer games
are to the average female and the viability of a barbie game.
> And I think the frequency of sexual harrassment is
> enough in itself to keep many women from wanting to participate in the
> totally unregulated, unpoliced environments (and the ineffectually
> policed ones). Sure, a few women will adopt a male identity, or a gender
> neutral one, but I think a lot more will simply leave and never come back.
Being a woman and having some experience with harassment on muds I can
vouch for that. If my first encounter with another player on a new mud
turns out to be nasty, aggressive or impolite chances are very good I
never bother to connect to that game again. If the ptb of a game do not
take a complaint about harassment seriously I certainly never get back
to that game.
I think that I have been lucky that I had some solid good experiences on
my first mud before the first horrifying or I would never have been here
today. As it was it still took some seven years before I connected to a
mud again after that experience.
> Summary: The outback is all very well and good, for that audience that
> wants it, and it's perfectly ok to provide that for them. But we've
> already got that covered, and we really ought to offer some OTHER types
> of environments too!
*cheers*
Marian
--
Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world,
out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of
my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again
will there be loneliness ...
Rolan Choosing Talia,
Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey
--
MUD-Dev: Advancing an unrealised future.
</PRE>
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<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> J C Lawrence <claw#under,engr.sgi.com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: (fwd) Re: POLL: Games ruined by bad players (Playe</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00409" HREF="msg00409.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: (fwd) Re: POLL: Games ruined by bad players (Playe</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Tue 05 May 1998, 18:44 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00291" HREF="msg00291.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: (fwd) Re: POLL: Games ruined by bad players (Playe</A></strong>,
Richard Woolcock <a href="mailto:KaVir#dial,pipex.com">KaVir#dial,pipex.com</a>, Fri 01 May 1998, 00:28 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00781" HREF="msg00781.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: (fwd) Re: POLL: Games ruined by bad players (Player killers, tank rushers etc)</A></strong>,
Dr. Cat <a href="mailto:cat#bga,com">cat#bga,com</a>, Tue 28 Apr 1998, 00:06 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00310" HREF="msg00310.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: (fwd) Re: POLL: Games ruined by bad players (Player killers, tank rushers etc)</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Sat 02 May 1998, 00:06 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00792" HREF="msg00792.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: (fwd) Re: POLL: Games ruined by bad players (Player killers, tank rushers etc)</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Tue 28 Apr 1998, 20:27 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00220" HREF="msg00220.html">[MUD-Dev] (fwd) Re: POLL: Games ruined by bad players (Player killers, tank rushers etc)</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Wed 29 Apr 1998, 00:11 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00777" HREF="msg00777.html">[MUD-Dev] OT: Birth announcement</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Mon 27 Apr 1998, 19:05 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00778" HREF="msg00778.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: OT: Birth announcement</A></strong>,
Nathan F Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Mon 27 Apr 1998, 19:27 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00779" HREF="msg00779.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: OT: Birth announcement</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Mon 27 Apr 1998, 19:44 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
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