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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing)</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing)</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Matthew Mihaly <<A HREF="mailto:sarapis#achaea,com">sarapis#achaea,com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 19:10:18 -0700</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
At 06:50 PM 6/2/99 -0500, Raph wrote:
> I wrote:
>> I will give a qualified 'yes'. Our game could not exist without a command
>> interface.
>
>How many of said commands are customarily abbreviated to the point of not
>being English anymore? (eg, n, s, w, e, d, u, k, g, i, and other common
>single-letter shorthand command abbreviations?) Would directions, GET ALL,
>INV, EQ, WHO, and others be better served by the numeric keypad, arrow keys,
>or function keys?
Well, the ones you have listed are the obvious. Some others that are
specific to Achaea are things like "inb" "outb" (for putting and taking
certain things from pocketbelts), "ind", and "outd" (for putting in and
taking out tarot cards from tarot decks), and the like. Actually, now that
I think about it, our entire martial arts skill (Tekura) consists of 3
letter abbreviations: ucp, (uppercut punch), bbt (backbreaker throw), etc.
It is mainly our skill system that would be (at least as far as my rather
limited knowledge in this area informs me) very very difficult.
For instance, just tossing some verbs from the top of my head:
decay, angel spiritwrack, perform hellsight, soulcage, vengeance,
decapitate, swing up, secrete voyria, bite, hypnotise, seal, fitness,
behead, target head, parry left arm, morph wyvern, incinerate, perform rite
of revitalization, etc.
>> There are thousands of commands,
>
>How many of them are really useful to the game mechanics (eg, dispense with
>all social commands, repeated verbs, etc?) How many of them are alternate
>verbs created for basically similar functionality, perhaps distinct for the
>purpose of addressing different item classes (eg, the old difference between
>DRINK BOTTLE and QUAFF POTION)? Or verbs that could be eliminated through
>parameterized commands that are made verbs for shorthand purposes?
Hundreds of them are really useful to the game mechanics frankly.
>> and they must be executed in
>> quick succession. During combat, anyone who hopes to have any chance uses
>> an elaborate system of macros to string together various commands (or just
>> to speed up the time it takes to type a command like FLING TOWER AT
>> BUBBA). I have yet to see a graphical game that comes anywhere near to our
>> game in terms of complexity,
>
>I don't know enough about your game to judge, but I'd expect the problem
>domain for the interface to be different enough that it's hard to make a
>comparison. EG, in UO the whole complicated "put 25 of these 30 garlic bulbs
>in the bag inside the chest that is on the table under the clock" thing is
>trivial. In EverQuest it's plain irrelevant--there's no drop command. In
>Asheron's Call the process of firing an arrow requires mentally calculating
>the angle at which to fire the arrow upwards so that it arches down on your
>enemy--in text this would be hideous, and probably pointless.
Yeah, good point. There's little room for analog situations like aiming an
arrow in muds (at least in any sort of end-user form).
>> and I'd be a bit stumped as to how to give a
>> user the option to execute all those commands himself without a command
>> line interface (note also that for flexibility, it's necessary to have
the
>> option to type the command OR make a macro with zmud or our internal
>> system).
>> --matt
>
>I may be interpreting this too literally, but it almost sounds like you
>require your users to program (macros are simplistic programming, IMHO) to
>be successful in managing the interface. Would it be simpler to allow
>players to set up chains of commonly used commands via an iconic interface,
>and set them off with a single function key? Is the requirement to program a
>design choice that isn't expressed literally as "a requirement to program"
>or is it because of the game pace or because of the interface being too
>complex? If you need action that quickly, would a gestural system via the
>mouse actually be faster?
Macros are absolutely essential to fighting. It couldn't be done well
without them. Someone without macros against a good opponent who has macros
is going to die very very quickly. I suppose I could set up an iconic
interface that lets them link commands together, but you still have to have
the ability to change targets and such on the fly for variable substitution
within your macros. It's mainly our PvP combat system that requires this,
as it is extraordinarily complex and fast (and, I might add, a ton of fun).
As for gestural action via a mouse, I don't think so. When I'm fighting, I
may h ave a good 40 or 50 macros set up. Switching between them by having
to move a mouse would lead to many mis-hit commands I think. It's much
easier and faster to use macros (f1 through f12, control-f1 through
control-f12, alt-f1 through alt-f12, etc). Many players do use their
numeric keypads to move around (I personally use my numeric keypad to
select which body part I will be parrying, and control-keypad to choose
which body part to attack, and alt-keypad to apply a particular and key
salve to a particular body part).
As for the "requirement to program", it's a function of the game pace. I
type pretty quickly (80 wps or so?), and there is simply not a chance in
hell that I could keep up in a fight without extensive macros against a
competent opponent. As an example, in 4 seconds, I may have to:
light pipe
smoke pipe
apply mending to left arm
apply mending to right arm
charge death
fling death at <target>
If you can type the equivalent of that much text, without error, in 4
seconds, while under pressure, then I bow to you as the Master Typist that
you are =).
--matt
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<li><strong><A NAME="00456" HREF="msg00456.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing)</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Greg Miller <gmiller#classic-games,com></li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00444" HREF="msg00444.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing)</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Caliban Tiresias Darklock <caliban#darklock,com></li></ul>
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<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing)</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00424" HREF="msg00424.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing)</A></strong>,
Ben Greear <a href="mailto:greear#cyberhighway,net">greear#cyberhighway,net</a>, Thu 03 Jun 1999, 04:08 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00405" HREF="msg00405.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing)</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Wed 02 Jun 1999, 23:57 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00407" HREF="msg00407.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing)</A></strong>,
Ross Nicoll <a href="mailto:rnicoll#lostics,demon.co.uk">rnicoll#lostics,demon.co.uk</a>, Thu 03 Jun 1999, 00:12 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00426" HREF="msg00426.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing)</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Thu 03 Jun 1999, 04:14 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00437" HREF="msg00437.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing)</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:sarapis#achaea,com">sarapis#achaea,com</a>, Thu 03 Jun 1999, 05:56 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00444" HREF="msg00444.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing)</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Thu 03 Jun 1999, 06:16 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00454" HREF="msg00454.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing)</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:sarapis#achaea,com">sarapis#achaea,com</a>, Thu 03 Jun 1999, 15:59 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00470" HREF="msg00470.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing)</A></strong>,
Ben Greear <a href="mailto:greear#cyberhighway,net">greear#cyberhighway,net</a>, Fri 04 Jun 1999, 01:33 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00475" HREF="msg00475.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages (slightly offtopic, was Text Parsing)</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:sarapis#achaea,com">sarapis#achaea,com</a>, Fri 04 Jun 1999, 05:54 GMT
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