20 Oct, 2008, Zenn wrote in the 2nd comment:
I never really thought about a conversation menu system. How do you accomplish that? MXP? Or just numbers next to whatever sentence it is and the player types the number?
20 Oct, 2008, Vassi wrote in the 3rd comment:
I think keywords would feel a little more organic in a mud, maybe some kind of basic syntax like "<keyword>(?|!|.)" or something. Bonus points if you make extra question marks or exclamation points make the NPC pull out a rifle and aerate the player some. =(
Edit: More on topic, that's a great teaser, I can't wait to see how it turns out, I've been itching to play\create a decent Sci-Fi setting like Firefly\Shadowrun\Fallout style rather than Star Wars, Star Trek etc.
Edit: More on topic, that's a great teaser, I can't wait to see how it turns out, I've been itching to play\create a decent Sci-Fi setting like Firefly\Shadowrun\Fallout style rather than Star Wars, Star Trek etc.
21 Oct, 2008, Vatiken wrote in the 4th comment:
The menu system is done using DG scripts. I've compiled a few extra functions to cut down on script size, and add extra functionality.
I've done keywords before but I find they are hard to do accurately, and unless you really spell them out in bold flashing letters, new players often have difficulty figuring them out. Plus you get too much of this stuff:
You say, 'you're a homo for saying HELLO to me.'
A mob says, 'Well hello to you to player, how are you?'
I had to decided on how to make a system that worked the way I wanted it to and I find the menu system easier to maneuver and easier for new players. Besides, one of things I'm trying to achieve in PNM is a "linear/non-linear" story line similar to the GTA series. Where as a player is thrown into a plot which can slowly ease them into the game before letting go of them and allow them to decide there direction. With that I find that the control of a menu set up is more conventional for guiding players along.
Here is a little pic of the menu, nothing too fancy but it does what it's supposed to do.
The "pink" text is an option that becomes available to player possessing the charm skill.
Thanks for the support, back to work. :)
I've done keywords before but I find they are hard to do accurately, and unless you really spell them out in bold flashing letters, new players often have difficulty figuring them out. Plus you get too much of this stuff:
You say, 'you're a homo for saying HELLO to me.'
A mob says, 'Well hello to you to player, how are you?'
I had to decided on how to make a system that worked the way I wanted it to and I find the menu system easier to maneuver and easier for new players. Besides, one of things I'm trying to achieve in PNM is a "linear/non-linear" story line similar to the GTA series. Where as a player is thrown into a plot which can slowly ease them into the game before letting go of them and allow them to decide there direction. With that I find that the control of a menu set up is more conventional for guiding players along.
Here is a little pic of the menu, nothing too fancy but it does what it's supposed to do.
The "pink" text is an option that becomes available to player possessing the charm skill.
Quote
Edit: More on topic, that's a great teaser, I can't wait to see how it turns out, I've been itching to play\create a decent Sci-Fi setting like Firefly\Shadowrun\Fallout style rather than Star Wars, Star Trek etc. Posted Today, 4:33 pm
Thanks for the support, back to work. :)
21 Oct, 2008, Vassi wrote in the 5th comment:
Vatiken said:
I've done keywords before but I find they are hard to do accurately, and unless you really spell them out in bold flashing letters, new players often have difficulty figuring them out. Plus you get too much of this stuff:
You say, 'you're a homo for saying HELLO to me.'
A mob says, 'Well hello to you to player, how are you?'
You say, 'you're a homo for saying HELLO to me.'
A mob says, 'Well hello to you to player, how are you?'
Good point. We had a bit of this in my old MUD. I guess I can't really think of a better way to do it, other than making them type out the question verbatim - and that feels almost as unnatural. I guess one thing I don't like about options like that is that you're putting words into people's mouths, so to speak, which is one thing in a console\single player game but a bit different when it's a multiplayer world where we encourage individualism. Overall, though, I think the benefits of a more 'rich' conversation system might even out.
You should consider outputting the menu with tags if the client supports an output protocol (I'm thinking specifically of how MUSHClient was integrated with Aardwolf) so that enterprising players can make the conversations into separate windows for more of a 'private' feel. I'd be annoyed if I was trying to talk to someone and room scroll kept getting in the way of the conversation.
I have to admit this hadn't really occurred to me before, despite the fact that I enjoy this kind of conversation system in my CRPGs. I might have to do something like this for my own mud, + the separate window since I'm building a client to pair with it.
Hurry up? :P
21 Oct, 2008, quixadhal wrote in the 6th comment:
EDIT: Did word wrap suddenly disappear, or am I just imagining that is was there before?
Hmmmm, that reminds me of an idea I had ages ago for character creation. Rather than the same old "pick
your race, pick your class, pick your nose" set of options, I wanted to give the players a dialog tree, and the
choices they made along the way would determine what they became.
Hmmmm, that reminds me of an idea I had ages ago for character creation. Rather than the same old "pick
your race, pick your class, pick your nose" set of options, I wanted to give the players a dialog tree, and the
choices they made along the way would determine what they became.
You walk over a hilltop and discover you're now on the edge of a small skirmish. Combatants are running in all
directions. You see splashes of blood, bits of armor, strange glows and dark mists, all flying through the air.
You could swear one of those bits was actually a halfling. Suddenly, something large, and unhappy notices you
and utters some kind of gargling war cry!
Do you?
1) Grab one of several bloodied swords lying nearby and join the fight!
2) Take hold of a glowing staff and will it to strike down your foes!
3) Fall to your knees and pray that someone saves you!
4) Roll into a nearby pile of refuse and throw a rock to distract your enemy!
5) Run away screaming!
21 Oct, 2008, elanthis wrote in the 7th comment:
The dialog tree thing has been done before. It's not usually that popular. People want to know what they're going to play, not have to try to guess what answers to give to magically pick the class/race they want.
You might try that for picking some less substantial attributes and traits, but leave the bigger bits up to direct player choice.
Something I've personally preferred was an "in-game" way to pick race and class and gender and stuff. Players appear as glowing orbs of light and have to navigate a small area and make selections by interacting with the environment. For a knowledgeable MUD player it takes very little extra effort compared to a menu systerm, and for new players it provides a great learning exercise for MUD basics without the tediousness of the traditional "MUD School" newbie zones. So long as you design it well, anyways.
I forget which game it was I tried years ago that gave me the idea. I want to say it was Dragon Realms, but I'm not sure.
You might try that for picking some less substantial attributes and traits, but leave the bigger bits up to direct player choice.
Something I've personally preferred was an "in-game" way to pick race and class and gender and stuff. Players appear as glowing orbs of light and have to navigate a small area and make selections by interacting with the environment. For a knowledgeable MUD player it takes very little extra effort compared to a menu systerm, and for new players it provides a great learning exercise for MUD basics without the tediousness of the traditional "MUD School" newbie zones. So long as you design it well, anyways.
I forget which game it was I tried years ago that gave me the idea. I want to say it was Dragon Realms, but I'm not sure.
21 Oct, 2008, David Haley wrote in the 8th comment:
I very strongly dislike being forced to use a dialog tree. I quite like having the option available when I'm fishing for ideas or when I want to get a feel for a game.
I quite like the idea of making choices by interacting with the environment.
I also quite like how Morrowind/Oblivion has you make choices progressively. You make the minimal choices early on – as NPCs prompt you with questions actually – and then it has you run through a first level. It analyzes what you're doing, and suggests a class that favors those skills. Not perfect, but pretty nice.
But I'm not sure if this thread is the most appropriate one to continue this discussion much further… it's up to Vatiken I suppose. :smile: But I agree – there's some pretty cool stuff in that list.
I quite like the idea of making choices by interacting with the environment.
I also quite like how Morrowind/Oblivion has you make choices progressively. You make the minimal choices early on – as NPCs prompt you with questions actually – and then it has you run through a first level. It analyzes what you're doing, and suggests a class that favors those skills. Not perfect, but pretty nice.
But I'm not sure if this thread is the most appropriate one to continue this discussion much further… it's up to Vatiken I suppose. :smile: But I agree – there's some pretty cool stuff in that list.
21 Oct, 2008, quixadhal wrote in the 9th comment:
If I had my way, players wouldn't even know what "class" they were, nor every see any actual numbers… ever. :)
What I think would be fun would be to telnet into the game and be thrown directly into combat, and your choices in resolving the combat direct what skills you get, and thus what class you become. But I also suspect it would scare and confuse too many people, considering how many people cry about the little stuff.
But yeah, not trying to hijack the thread… I just thought the dialog tree had quite a few uses and was a good idea!
What I think would be fun would be to telnet into the game and be thrown directly into combat, and your choices in resolving the combat direct what skills you get, and thus what class you become. But I also suspect it would scare and confuse too many people, considering how many people cry about the little stuff.
But yeah, not trying to hijack the thread… I just thought the dialog tree had quite a few uses and was a good idea!
22 Oct, 2008, Vatiken wrote in the 10th comment:
DavidHaley said:
But I'm not sure if this thread is the most appropriate one to continue this discussion much further… it's up to Vatiken I suppose. :smile: But I agree – there's some pretty cool stuff in that list.
Go ahead and discuss, don't let me stand in the way.
—————
Vassi said:
I guess one thing I don't like about options like that is that you're putting words into people's mouths, so to speak, which is one thing in a console\single player game but a bit different when it's a multiplayer world where we encourage individualism.
I do agree, and that was something I debated on for a while. I mean when using key words or menus, or any system for that matter there are pros and cons to each. One drawback of a my menu system, like you said, is putting words into a players mouth they might not want. To try and offset that, I've tried to offer a range of reply choices divided into several categories such as "Good", "Neutral", "Evil", and then "Charm" and "Intimidate". The last two being skill based. In the end it still doesn't offer that freedom of choosing a personal response, but I hope people find it offers up enough variety to offset that as much as possible.
Vassi said:
You should consider outputting the menu with tags if the client supports an output protocol (I'm thinking specifically of how MUSHClient was integrated with Aardwolf) so that enterprising players can make the conversations into separate windows for more of a 'private' feel. I'd be annoyed if I was trying to talk to someone and room scroll kept getting in the way of the conversation.
Thats a good idea that I hadn't previously thought of, thanks.
As far as the Dialog Tree system for character creation that Quixadhal presented, I personally like systems like that on one condition. That condition being able to alter the results at the end. I've played several cool console and pc games that have similar systems and try and present a class/race choice to based on your answers. I find them helpful especially in "oddball" games that use a different style of character creation so that you atleast have an idea of what might be useful. Nothing is more annoying then playing a MUD that changes core mechanics without letting new players know. Like giving me 100 "practice points", but not telling me it costs 100 points per practice. :cry:
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A little about me:
I've been active in MUDding for over 10 years now as both a player and an immortal. My MUD related skills involve design, building, coding and marketing. This is the third project that I've developed, and it's my best work to date. I'm excited about the potential this game has to succeed, and I'm more excited each day as I see it grow into what it's destined to become. And what it's becoming is an extremely fun game to play.
About PNM:
The person for this position:
What this position entails:
If you're interested in coming and taking a look at Peace No More, and perhaps joining forces in developing an extremely fun game, either drop me a message here or email me at jarnusch@shaw.ca.