It seems to be pretty much mandatory for MUDs to have their own forums nowadays: a place to warn about that upcoming pwipe etc. I've looked at the frameworks (and their predecessors) that power the forums I frequent and I'm getting the impression that, for my basic needs, any of them would be fine. In fact, I'm having trouble finding significant differences. I'm wondering, what functionality lead you to the framework you're using now? Is there something in particular that should make one avoid a particular framework? Cheers.
-Ryanicus
26 Sep, 2007, David Haley wrote in the 2nd comment:
Votes: 0
I'd use Quicksilver Forums (the code that powers this forum). It's lean, does what it says on the tin, and does it well. Installation was easier than I remember phpBB being, too. You also have the advantage of a relatively small but well-knit community which means that signal-to-noise ratio is very good on the support forums. And finally, you have direct forum access to the developer himself, who has time to listen to you given that there aren't 1000s of newbies breathing down his neck asking him to add all of their features. :smile:
I recommend QSF or QSFP. But that's just me. I was never really all that impressed with the phpBB system, but then when I joined the FUSS Project, and learned what the board system it used was, I was impressed, and have used it since then. MudBytes is actually the development site for QSFP as well, if I'm not mistaken.
[EDIT]: Both of the Websites in my signature, Strife, and Malevolent Whispers run off the Quicksilver Forums Portal, if you want to have a look around. Although, the Strife one is a more advanced implementation.. where I've added.. quite a few interesting tidbits.
I would advise against using phpBB I used it and got bit hard by a zero-day vunerability taking my server down for serveral days. I agree I would recommed QSF for a forum and QSF portal or Sandbox depending one what kind of site you are trying to start.
I don't know about many of the phpBB systems out there, but I know that QSFPortal is a good one to use. It powers many SMAUG websites (This one and FUSSProject to name a few) that are well known through out the community. That and our MUD's website uses it. >.>
PhpBB has the security you would expect from a five year old you tell to defend your ice cream while cartoons are on.
There's quite a few different systems out there that are pretty decent. I've found one called Orca which was pretty cool. If you look around, I'm sure you will be able to figure out what you want.
It's easy for people to tell you what they like but you have to experience them for yourself. I'd suggest setting up some of the ones mentioned and trying them out for yourself. Suggestions can only take you so far. :biggrin:
Phpbb- Massive Userbase. Hacks number in the thousands, styles are easily in the hundreds. Phpbb2 is out of date and phpbb3 is still a release candidate. It looks niiiiice if your confident in using something that's kinda beta.
QSF- Less Bloated, More efficient, what runs mudbytes. With the less bloat comes less features.
SMF- Seems to me alot like Phpbb just by different people. Its building a very fair share of mods and hacks. Better security than phpbb2, but seems about on par with phpbb3.
Orca- New board made by the people who make Dolphin, which is a new version of Aedating. Its, obviously, a dating script. Orca is made primarily as an add-on for their dolphin script. Powered entirely by ajax so there is very little load time at all. Editor is WYSIWYG beyond most forums…its definitely a new approach to forums.
Vanilla- This board intrigues me a bit. It takes an approach similar to single board forums but has multiple categories, so the concept of "multiple boards" is optional. You can view all posts like old boards, or as categories like multiple forums.
Also if you want something like QSF portal for either SMF, PHPBB, Vbulletin, IPB or MYBB, check out mkportal.it, it adds shoutbox, blogs, downloads, chat, articles, faq, and some other things to your forum. Its very nice.
At one point or another I've used pretty much every popular forum script. I'm a huge forum junkie. :D
Well obviously my recommendation is going to lie with the software I help develop.
I've used Phorum, Invisionboard, Ikonboard, phpbb2, and one other I can't recall off hand. All of them had some kind of major problem that made it a less than desirable option. I converted my way through all of them at great risk to the contents of the forums which were affected. When I found MercuryBoard, my hunt was over. It had all of the features I needed, without the bloat or the constant security hazards. Sure, it had a few, but by the time I got to it all but one had been squished.
MercuryBoard turned out to be a godsend. It's easy to modify. Easy to maintain. Has an uber-powerful permissions system. Unbeatable skinning engine. As I always say to people, if *I* can skin it, anyone can. When it looked like MB might be going under, I bought up the matching .net and .com domains and turned out a revised copy of the code I was using for the AFKMud site. It eventually lead to the Quicksilver Forums package. That package has come a long way in a very short time with a solid team behind it. We may not be many, but we all have our areas and we produce solid reliable code.
Brinson said:
QSF- Less Bloated, More efficient, what runs mudbytes. With the less bloat comes less features.
I disagree, mainly because I know our code better than you do. We have pound for pound as many features as phpbb2, probably even phpbb3 ( I haven't examined that in detail ) and we had things in MB and QSF that phpbb2 never had. The most obvious of which were file attachments. And we did it with code that's rock solid secure.
Technically, QSF Portal is a giant mod for the QSF package. If the forums were removed it would amount to a front page of nothing and a file downloads module. Plus what we've added to it here. I know I'm biased heavily but I honestly have not seen another system so cleanly coded that's so easy to make major modifications to and I'd never use anything else for a community site. What QSFP lacks, we can overcome by writing it ourselves in a couple of days.
As for Sandbox, since it was mentioned, that's more appropriate for use as a personal blog/website. It's not intended to build a large public community although it could probably be stretched to do so. I'd put it in the same class of packages as Wordpress, Movable Type, etc.
Personally, I'd solidly recommend QSFP myself. I use it for both my mud's forums and for my family blog site which also doubles as a few other group forums for me privately and have had very few problems with it, none of which Samson couldn't help me solve in very short order. I have used other forum software and I thuoght invision was pretty nice, but it's very expensive and invisionfree becomes anything but free should you decide to transition away from it.
If all you're after is a place to make general announcements to your players and maybe provide some file support and minimal option for feedback on those anouncements, then yes, Sandbox would work out very nicely too, but if you're looking for a more full forum environment, go with QSFP.
When I say less features what I'm really talking about is mods/plugins/hacks/whateveryouwant to call them. I'm in the process of designing a site at the moment and I've tried: Phpbb, IPB, Mybb, PunBB, Orca, SMF, Vbulletin, Vanilla, and QSF Portal and have been unable to get a site together that I love with any of them.
Here's the problem I have. You have 2 kinds. The too advanced and the not advanced enough.
Vbulletin, Phpbb, IPB, Orca, SMF, too hard to modify. Waaay. The themes also get -really- messed up when you try to modify them. I attempted to write some mods myself, as I used to mod phpbb2 quite a bit, but found that its now much more difficult with these scripts. The other mods, themes, styles, layout, ect…are all so touchy, if you mess things up, it turns out real bad. At one point, in SMF + Mkportal, changing the theme made my admin CP unusable and I had to edit the DB extensively just to gain access to the site.
And then there are the ones of the vein of QSF, Vanilla, Phorum, Mybb, ect. I like them, I really do, but they can't do the things I want them to. I wanted a section for uploading streaming videos and have them rated. Phpbb, IPB, Vbulletin, SMF all have mods to do this, but the types like QSF and phorum don't seem to. I also want a shoutbox, but if it exists as a mod I didn't find it. I want to intergrate it with PJIRC, but don't really know how to do that.
Of course, I'm not saying necessarily that QSF -should- have those things, but I am saying that is why some people would choose other forum boards over it. Phpbb, Vbuiletin, SMF, IPB, they all have those as add-ons. They also have things like arcades, point systems, karma, ect as features. I don't personally want them, but their availability adds to the possible feature list of the forum boards and makes them rank a bit higher I think.bea
Beyond that, there is the look of QSF. As a developer, I understand the beauty of simplicity when building a site and how much ease it adds to the process, but that doesn't mean the average user isn't going to be dazzled by how nice the new phpbb3 looks. Times are changing. At one point I think web sites were judged mainly for their content, but I don't think that's true anymore. Sad, but that's how it goes. Looks matter. I don't think people care less about content so much as they now expect both.
It also depends largely on your userbase. Obviously a mud forum isn't going to care about how graphically appealing the site is. That's not to say mudbytes or qsf looks bad or anything, but that its not going to compete looks-wise with some of those flash phpbb and vbulletin themes I've seen. Sure, its going to be a pain in the ass to build onto, its going to waste bandwith, and its going to be a true nuisance, but if its what the userbase of your website wants, I think it has to be a consideration.
I hope my words aren't taken as too hard or anything, as all I hope to give is constructive criticism. I think what QSF needs the most is some content-based mods. Shoutbox, Chat, Karma/Thanks/Points.
Suppose you could always write a new mod for those things for QSF/QSFP, some would be nifty stuff we'd love to see, but we have the mods that folks have submitted so far. *shrug*
Thanks for all the feedback folks. Once I get a mySQL db I'll give QSF a try. I guess it stands to reason, if you ask about bb frameworks on any given board there's likely to be substantial support for the framework that board is using. I'll let you know if I find any evidence that casts a shadow of reasonable dount on it's rock-solidness. :cyclops:
I've found that the e107 CMS is a worthy application, although the forum features aren't as advanced as most BBS. It does allow for Private Messages (A separate plugin), Polls (plugin), quick replies, and has a large (and growing) support community. It is free, and has several support websites (e107.org, e107coders.org, e107themes.org) that all provide free support. It is a content management system, so that means you can use it for both your forums and your website, and they will be integrated seamlessly. I've used it for many different projects, and have to say that the only disadvantage of the application is the comparatively underdeveloped forums. They are still solid forums, though, and I recommend using it despite the previously mentioned things.
When I say less features what I'm really talking about is mods/plugins/hacks/whateveryouwant to call them. I'm in the process of designing a site at the moment and I've tried: Phpbb, IPB, Mybb, PunBB, Orca, SMF, Vbulletin, Vanilla, and QSF Portal and have been unable to get a site together that I love with any of them.
I'm not sure it's fair to judge the board software on how many mods and hacks people have come up with for it. phpbb has zillions of them to be sure, but 90% of them are junk and 90% of the sites I see using phpbb don't use mods along with it. Apples and oranges. The only fair comparison is what's included with the package. Besides, it sounds like you might have a special need that a generic package isn't well suited for. At which point I'd suggest it might be time to think about writing what you need yourself - and QSFP to me would be the easiest framework to do that in.
Brinson said:
Vbulletin, Phpbb, IPB, Orca, SMF, too hard to modify. Waaay. The themes also get -really- messed up when you try to modify them. I attempted to write some mods myself, as I used to mod phpbb2 quite a bit, but found that its now much more difficult with these scripts. The other mods, themes, styles, layout, ect…are all so touchy, if you mess things up, it turns out real bad. At one point, in SMF + Mkportal, changing the theme made my admin CP unusable and I had to edit the DB extensively just to gain access to the site.
I have a feeling that no matter what you do, the styles and themes are going to be touchy. Anything substantial you do to any of these systems will require some way to interact with it. It can't be avoided. The reason it's such a delicate situation is because pretty much all of us are trying to dance around browser problems while maintaining standards compliance as best we can. IE doesn't make that easy. :)
Brinson said:
And then there are the ones of the vein of QSF, Vanilla, Phorum, Mybb, ect. I like them, I really do, but they can't do the things I want them to. I wanted a section for uploading streaming videos and have them rated. Phpbb, IPB, Vbulletin, SMF all have mods to do this, but the types like QSF and phorum don't seem to. I also want a shoutbox, but if it exists as a mod I didn't find it. I want to intergrate it with PJIRC, but don't really know how to do that.
I don't think it's really fair to lump QSF and MyBB in with such stripped down forum packages as Vanilla, Phorum, and PunBB. The stripped down packages are serving a specific niche of people who don't want all the extra things that more advanced packages offer. I think it's more accurate to say that vBulletin and Invisionboard are the only truly "advanced" packages out there, and they're both uberbloated as a result of it. QSF, MyBB, SMF, and maybe even phpbb3 are more mid-range. Not too fancy but not barebones either.
The streaming video ratings mod doesn't exist because, thus far, nobody using QSF has had a need for it. There's nothing stopping you or anyone else from providing for that though. There is already a shoutbox mod for QSF, in addition to a photo gallery and a crude calendar mod. I'm not familiar with PJIRC but that almost sounds like a special case mod that not many people would need.
As far as things like arcades, point systems, cash mods, auction thingies, karma/rep systems, and other fluffy bunny type things I never saw the point in turning a forum into some kind of contest center. Though we'd of course welcome mods that add this sort of thing as like you say it would add to the appeal for people who do want them. Kayle, for example, needed mods to produce the raid progression and item details for his WoW guild site. I'm hoping he'll contribute them to the mods section so that others who want that for their own WoW sites based on QSFP can get them.
Brinson said:
Beyond that, there is the look of QSF. As a developer, I understand the beauty of simplicity when building a site and how much ease it adds to the process, but that doesn't mean the average user isn't going to be dazzled by how nice the new phpbb3 looks. Times are changing. At one point I think web sites were judged mainly for their content, but I don't think that's true anymore. Sad, but that's how it goes. Looks matter. I don't think people care less about content so much as they now expect both.
Personally I think the new phppb3 look is girly. At least on their own community site. It has that whole flowery soft crappy feel that so many other "Web 2.0" sites have now. I agree though that the older QSF skin wasn't exactly stunning, in fact quite plain. But I think the new one we released with QSF 1.4.0 looks much nicer without becoming yet another fluff-fest skin.
As far as things like arcades, point systems, cash mods, auction thingies, karma/rep systems, and other fluffy bunny type things I never saw the point in turning a forum into some kind of contest center. Though we'd of course welcome mods that add this sort of thing as like you say it would add to the appeal for people who do want them. Kayle, for example, needed mods to produce the raid progression and item details for his WoW guild site. I'm hoping he'll contribute them to the mods section so that others who want that for their own WoW sites based on QSFP can get them.
Actually, if someone came up with a few mods like those, I might impliment a couple of them on my sites, I could use a means to encourage a bit more activity and those do seem to work on other sites I've used that have them, particularly the karma/rep systems and cash/gold mods that let you buy icons for your mini-profile pane…
Heh. Well. Instead of waiting for "someone" to come up with them…. :)
Personally I hate karma/rep mods the most. They're probably the most useless and abused mods on any forum. Your description of cash mod sounds just as pointless :P
Either way, this is a classic example of "if you want it, build it". Board scripts don't get mods out of thin air, someone had to write them at some point. Just like muds don't get a playerbase out of nothing. It has to be built up.
It seems to be pretty much mandatory for MUDs to have their own forums nowadays: a place to warn about that upcoming pwipe etc. I've looked at the frameworks (and their predecessors) that power the forums I frequent and I'm getting the impression that, for my basic needs, any of them would be fine. In fact, I'm having trouble finding significant differences. I'm wondering, what functionality lead you to the framework you're using now? Is there something in particular that should make one avoid a particular framework? Cheers.
-Ryanicus