Yes, although I think the St George's Cross, or possibly the union flag, would be more appropriate.



Sure you can, but patriotism doesn't usually include pride in the achievements of other countries.


On a serious note: While I'm not a fan of political correctness either, I do think it's a bit odd to wave around the American flag on a MUD site - not so much because the first MUD was created by a couple of Englishmen in England, but more because the genre itself has now become very much an international thing. When I see an American flag on a news site, I expect it to contain news which is primarily of interest to American readers.

P.S: Did you really have to post yet another "muds are dead" article on your news site?

…yet another?

And I didn't say MUDs are dead, I just said they're going to be if the amount of good immortals keeps declining at the rate that it is.


And I would've used an animation of a guy sitting in a dark room typing on a computer if I'd have found one.

Yeah, we get them every year. I collect them, actually, although I'm still missing one for 1993, and would like a better one for 2000.


"muds in general are dying off."
– Flurry, 7th January 2008.


"Yeah, muds are in decline, and certainly dying. This sharp lost of interest announces the final days of muds. We lost, MMORPGs won. Goodbye muds, forever."
– Mister, 4th January 2007.


"Muds are dying because of WoW and the like…now you can have live VoIP and all, who needs boring text on a screen, right?"
– Tasha, 14th April 2006.


"And then theres the sinking knowledge that text muds are a dying breed as mmorpg's eat away at your player base slowly but surely."
– kestanan, 14th March 2005.


"MUDs, althought many are well-written and excellent gaming experiences, are loosing favour amongst many that would have played. Nowadays the shiny graphics supplied by AC, Everquest, SWG et al have grabbed the attentions of many and, some say, they're doomed to die a slow death."
– Jim Grimmett, 23rd February 2004.


"I would have to say yes, muds are dieing. While there still are and always will be a cult following to muds, the new generation of players find no eye candy to keep them occupied."
– Ryan, 18th October 2003.


"Has the text-based MUD filled with nicely written areas seen the end of days?"
– Annu, 9th September 2002.


"I think we'll be seeing less text-based MUDS and more things like everquest and web-based games. things like asp and .net are making it easier to write web apps by the day".
– Scott Lloyd, 4th May 2001.


"I don't think MU* will ever die. It'll just remain the province of those who've been into text-based games since they first started appearing".
– Lyrker, 7th November 2000.


"With the development of the online gaming community into one which can provide fullspeed graphics and sound, head to head and strategic action, and all the socialization of a text mud; I see the Mud's of the future as a relatively dead thing".
– Craig T. Dalrymple, 9th April 1999.


"Why have text adventures (text games) almost completely died?"
– John Giors, 21 October 1998.


"Text is dead".
– T. D. Pazuzu, 9th October 1997.


"I am sure that all of you felow MUDers out there have seen the "new" breed of MUDs. You know, "Ultima on-line", "The Realm", "Meridian 59", etc. Games like this are going to put an end to our old-fashined text based MUDs and it will be a sad day".
– Matt, 21st October 1996.


"With all this [technology] becoming available in the next 2 years I think real interactive enviroments will be possible. Text only muds will be swept away by graphical enviroments, many of which will have first person perspectives I think".
– Curtis Shenton, 16th May 1995.


"I suspect that 10 years from now most all of what we call MUDS today will be graphical based."
– Henry McDaniel III, 1st January 1994.


"Simply put, muds will becmoe full graphics/ color/ and sound within the next 20 years…"
– Ian A. Verschuren, 11th December 1992.


"I don't know anything about the game market in America, but in the UK, commercial text adventures are dead".
– M Luscombe, 11th July 1991.


"I don't think there is much interest in adventure games anymore. Everyone wants graphical interfaces without text input…basically TEXT ADVENTURES ARE DEAD".
– Colin Adams, 1st October 1990.

*Happily noting that his name appears no where on the above list.*

While I'm as patriotic as most reasonable Americans, I have to agree that a BIG American flag on a MUD site does seem mildly inappropriate, afterall, not only are MUDs not an American invention, but they are usually based around fantasy worlds entirely which sort of make the U.S. Flag out of place.

I do think the "muds are dead" posts are counterproductive to our "industry" and far too commonly spewed already. :sad:

For that picture of someone in a dark room typing, would these have worked for you?


(No idea if either of those are copyrighted or what have you, though I suspect they are, but they're among the best examples I found on a google image search.)

No. I would rather you put no flag there. Perhaps a MUD image would be better, but not such an obnoxiously huge one. This has nothing to do with political correctness; it has to do with obnoxious web design with irrelevant imagery. It's your site, though… :shrug:


You certainly have a way with words… With attitudes like that, maybe I won't go off and die, but you can be fairly confident that at the least I might not be inclined to visit your site. :wink:

Incidentally, you falsely equate patriotism with blatant ostentatious display. It's plenty possible to be patriotic without shouting it on every rooftop.

Jesus people. It's Zenn's site, let him decorate it however he likes. I've never seen such an obvious display of America bashing outside of a political debate or the nightly news.

For what it's worth Zenn, I agree. Political correctness has gotten way out of hand lately.



If you're referring to the humongous sig images you had before it was changed, yes, you could change it back. And we could also block it since there were a number of complaints, and you had been asked to deal with it. Lets not turn this into another ugly incident :)

Don't be ridiculous, Samson. Had it been a flag of any other country it would have been just as obnoxious. I think your everyone-hates-America paranoia is coming through… :wink:

It's not paranoia if everyone actually does hate you….. *duck*

Depends on the person really. Me seeing the state that MUDs are in right now made me want to start working on one again(which I actually did start programming again after quite a few years of a hiatus.).. MUDs aren't dead and they aren't going to die anytime soon.. I do think that the amount of snippets and out of the box codebases out there have dumbed down MUDding enough to the point that it's simply too easy to create a game.

When I quit dealing with MUDs it was mostly due to the fact that nobody was even trying anymore. It was omg, I have a compile error and I can't do a quick google search to maybe shed some light into why I am getting it. Instead, I want to go post and ask someone to debug it for me so I can never actually learn how to handle this situation and still run a game. It's one thing to offer help but we have been helping people with no ambition for years now. It's caused the quality of MUDs to go way down and with that comes a decline in players because it's simply too hard to find a quality MUD with admins and owners that actually care about making a game people can enjoy and care about. Most of the successful MUDs out there have been around for quite a few years(Even more so since my MUDding career was 93-2003 I don't exactly know "what's hip now homie".. lol..).

I'm not saying MUDs are going to die, I am just saying the quality of MUDs over the past five/six years has probably helped in dropping the total player/admin base.

It was pointed out that the original MUD was UK-based, and that MUDs are now international. I also mentioned that when I see an American flag on a news site, I tend to assume the news is primarily of interest to American readers.

I don't really think it's fair to call that "America bashing". But then I've been called "Anti-American" in the past for saying I didn't like Starbucks, and I've seen someone else called "Anti-American" because they use Linux instead of Windows…

lol, I have to agree.. I saw nothing that was "bashing" or "anti-american".


Don't get me wrong, I don't hate America… However, there's a pretty good reason why most countries hate america.. We're seriously a bunch of self centered assholes. Have you noticed that most "patriotism" never happened until we went to war or had people get injured/killed on our own soil? Hell, from what I can tell, we're only angry because it wasn't us that killed us. We kill ourselves everyday and it's never as big of a deal if someone from out of country kills someone here.

Like I said, I don't hate America or Americans(well, I hate a lot of them actually) but we are a bunch of douche bags. lol

EDIT: Hopefully what I am saying makes sense.. I've been reworking my lab at work.. Stayed until 8pm tonight reracking nodes(over twenty nodes at 90+lbs each is a lot to rerack.) and I'm very sore, tired and brain dead.. I'll never move the racks again…

I sit back and laugh as I watch you fumble with words.

Oh, and I hate windows too.

Join the club.


The flag is there because America is MINE, people. You decorate your sites with your own flags. I'm not changing it just because I don't feel like giving in to people who are complaining about it for no reason.

This is a topic about favorite games. Don't turn it into a flame war.

But yeah, I think we did throw up the 'OMGZ YOU GYZ ARE PWNING AMERICA DIE DIE DIE' sheild too quickly though.

But seriously.

Down with political correctness.


P.S.

Wtf do you mean a 'mud' image? A screenshot of one? Heh. No.


Samson, are you signature bashing? *screams and hides*

Lol. Don't we all need a life?

If you're advertising a brand new site, and asking, nay demanding, that people visit it "or else", and then they tell you they think there's a problem with it, it is then perhaps in your interests to adjust your site if you wish to obtain the audience that you demanded. I mean, just saying and all. :smile:

If you can find me an animated graphic of a fat kid with pimples typing on a glowing computer screen in a dark room, sure.

I remember seeing something like that somewhere..

Sorry, I'm no graphic artist and I found you the best I was willing to put the effort into finding for you. *shrug*

Nope, no America bashing on my part at all, just saying that I felt the U.S. Flag seemed odd in a MUD context, especially given that the site's not about a mud based on anything American at all. You know, if the site was for a mud that was based on post-apocalyptic USA, I'd understand entirely.. make sense?

I can't begin to imagine what would be "American" about using Windows over Linux except the ludicrous notion that Windows is an American made product and Linux (originally) wasn't, but even then, there's nothing American about wanting to spend more money than one has to in order to get something done less well within their own home/business.. well, come to think of it, maybe there is.. oh well, either way, call me what you will but my love for Windows wore off years ago.

There, you picky buffoons. :stare:

-------------> Click it <---------...
That good enough for you? :thinking:

Favorite games:
Gemfire (KOEI)
Romance of the II Kingdoms (KOEI)
Master of Monsters (Sega Genesis)
Civilization (all of them)
Age of Empires (all versions)
Empire Deluxe (oldschool!)

MMO's:
I don't play any, currently. Only messed with early ones and stopped. Most were bashing, eq and no role-play.

MUDs:
Gemstone (used to play)
Shattered Kingdoms (used to play a little)
Forgotten Kingdoms (got a little ways, then stopped)
(should list my own, but never get a chance to play)

If you like Civilization, try Freeciv.

Got it already, thanks. Also have "Battle of Wesnoth", another fine free battle/strategy game.

Those are good for when I want to just blow a few hours on nothing. Takes the edge off (for me) when coding something.

If you want an excellent game, try Spiderweb Software's games, particularly Geneforge 1-4


(P.S., how's the new avatar?)