12 Oct, 2007, David Haley wrote in the 62nd comment:
Kjwah said:
Especially considering how many people asking for free MUD hosting will never actually do anything with it after maybe a month of finding out how hard and challenging it is to run a successful MUD.
While I agree that time is valuable, I'm not sure how it affects the worth of the initial time that people tend to quickly abandon their MUD. It's not as if you get anything or pay anything extra if your "client" decides to leave. (Modulo having to delete their account, I suppose.)
12 Oct, 2007, Zeno wrote in the 63rd comment:
Kjwah said:
It costs time. Time is money. Especially considering how many people asking for free MUD hosting will never actually do anything with it after maybe a month of finding out how hard and challenging it is to run a successful MUD.
Zeno said:
No, it's not the same thing. Shipping actually does cost money. Creating a new user on linux doesn't cost anything.
Quote
Lets say I am giving out free computers, you just have to pay for shipping and handling.. The computer's still free, even if I am making you pay for shipping fees.. Isn't this almost the same thing?
No, it's not the same thing. Shipping actually does cost money. Creating a new user on linux doesn't cost anything.
It costs time. Time is money. Especially considering how many people asking for free MUD hosting will never actually do anything with it after maybe a month of finding out how hard and challenging it is to run a successful MUD.
I already mentioned that shipping something takes time and money. It's not the same. Besides, it takes under a minute to create a user. Times is valuable, but such a short time can't be compared to shipping an item.
12 Oct, 2007, Fizban wrote in the 64th comment:
That right there is the main thing, as Zeno just stated, creating a new user on a *nix variant takes close to the same amount of time as it took me to type this post. (About 20-30 seconds or less)
12 Oct, 2007, David Haley wrote in the 65th comment:
Fizban said:
That right there is the main thing, as Zeno just stated, creating a new user on a *nix variant takes close to the same amount of time as it took me to type this post. (About 20-30 seconds or less)
Do it over and over and over and over again and maybe you won't find it so painless. :shrug:
And the comparison to shipping wasn't meant to mean the amount of time spent is the same, it was an analogy of the usage of the word "free".
12 Oct, 2007, Conner wrote in the 66th comment:
DavidHaley said:
No problem at all Conner, better a few days after you notice it than never. But I still think you should have emailed webmaster@localhost: if he's willing to do the work of fixing it, hey, I'm all for that. :lol:
And yeah… popcorn is like $4 for the small size at our theater, $5 for medium I think. Darn tickets are like $9.25, and that's WITH the student discount. You know, it's not often that the French beat the US in terms of capitalism, but it's fairly common to have these subscription-type plans where you pay like $20 a month and get to go to as many shows as you want. I was somewhat stunned when I saw that theaters here don't have that. (Instead, they have these point plan thingies, where every ticket gives you bonus points that apply toward free popcorn every once in a while or things like that.) It was also amusing because there was some criticism of the plan (in France) because people were saying it was too Americanistic in its capitalism, and would kill small theatres, etc. Therefore it was quite amusing to me to see that, in fact, Americans don't have it. :lol: (At least, not the theater chains I've seen: the AMC and Century theatres.)
And yeah… popcorn is like $4 for the small size at our theater, $5 for medium I think. Darn tickets are like $9.25, and that's WITH the student discount. You know, it's not often that the French beat the US in terms of capitalism, but it's fairly common to have these subscription-type plans where you pay like $20 a month and get to go to as many shows as you want. I was somewhat stunned when I saw that theaters here don't have that. (Instead, they have these point plan thingies, where every ticket gives you bonus points that apply toward free popcorn every once in a while or things like that.) It was also amusing because there was some criticism of the plan (in France) because people were saying it was too Americanistic in its capitalism, and would kill small theatres, etc. Therefore it was quite amusing to me to see that, in fact, Americans don't have it. :lol: (At least, not the theater chains I've seen: the AMC and Century theatres.)
You're in France? That's a new one on me..
Dragona tells me that popcorn here is about $5 for the small tub, so it does sound like you've got us beat even if only slightly.
DavidHaley said:
Fixed the repository; the problem was a bzr update that caused the web-serve plugin to break. (d'oh) Except that now, all changes were 37 years ago. :smile:
Ah, well, at least it's back up, even if it's now all older than me by at least a month. :lol:
DavidHaley said:
Do it over and over and over and over again and maybe you won't find it so painless. :shrug:
Fizban said:
That right there is the main thing, as Zeno just stated, creating a new user on a *nix variant takes close to the same amount of time as it took me to type this post. (About 20-30 seconds or less)
Do it over and over and over and over again and maybe you won't find it so painless. :shrug:
Lord, I don't know why we're still going on with this, but if you're creating new users on a *nix variant that often that it's no longer painless and starting to account for real quantities of your time, maybe you should consider going professional and admitting that you're dealing with corporate IT rather than running a small free host..
DavidHaley said:
And the comparison to shipping wasn't meant to mean the amount of time spent is the same, it was an analogy of the usage of the word "free".
Um, the analogy got lost in translation because the argument is still that if you're paying anything at all it's no longer free rather than the specific semantics of what is free.
12 Oct, 2007, David Haley wrote in the 67th comment:
Conner said:
You're in France? That's a new one on me..
I grew up there, but now I'm in California (but when I graduate in March I'll be moving to NYC for my job).
Conner said:
Dragona tells me that popcorn here is about $5 for the small tub, so it does sound like you've got us beat even if only slightly.
Oh, the tub thingies here are about $5 too. I was talking about like the smallest size they have, the little sleeve thingies.
Conner said:
Lord, I don't know why we're still going on with this, but if you're creating new users on a *nix variant that often that it's no longer painless and starting to account for real quantities of your time, maybe you should consider going professional and admitting that you're dealing with corporate IT rather than running a small free host..
Well, you'd certainly make more money that way… :wink:
Conner said:
Um, the analogy got lost in translation because the argument is still that if you're paying anything at all it's no longer free rather than the specific semantics of what is free.
DavidHaley said:
And the comparison to shipping wasn't meant to mean the amount of time spent is the same, it was an analogy of the usage of the word "free".
Um, the analogy got lost in translation because the argument is still that if you're paying anything at all it's no longer free rather than the specific semantics of what is free.
But we agreed that the computer was free even if you had to pay for shipping, right? Well, I also agree with you that this whole 'free' thing is getting less interesting… so how about we start a motion to talk about making money off of sys-adminning instead. :smile:
12 Oct, 2007, Zeno wrote in the 68th comment:
DavidHaley said:
Do it over and over and over and over again and maybe you won't find it so painless. :shrug:
Fizban said:
That right there is the main thing, as Zeno just stated, creating a new user on a *nix variant takes close to the same amount of time as it took me to type this post. (About 20-30 seconds or less)
Do it over and over and over and over again and maybe you won't find it so painless. :shrug:
If you're doing it over and over, then at $5 a setup (taking around 1min per setup) you're making $300 an hour. "Free"? I think not.
12 Oct, 2007, Conner wrote in the 69th comment:
Zeno said:
If you're doing it over and over, then at $5 a setup (taking around 1min per setup) you're making $300 an hour. "Free"? I think not.
DavidHaley said:
Do it over and over and over and over again and maybe you won't find it so painless. :shrug:
Fizban said:
That right there is the main thing, as Zeno just stated, creating a new user on a *nix variant takes close to the same amount of time as it took me to type this post. (About 20-30 seconds or less)
Do it over and over and over and over again and maybe you won't find it so painless. :shrug:
If you're doing it over and over, then at $5 a setup (taking around 1min per setup) you're making $300 an hour. "Free"? I think not.
If you're really doing it that much, you could script it so that you could actually manage 6 setups per minute, then you'd potentially be making $1800 an hour. :tongue:
13 Oct, 2007, Darwin wrote in the 70th comment:
Zeno said:
I already mentioned that shipping something takes time and money. It's not the same. Besides, it takes under a minute to create a user. Times is valuable, but such a short time can't be compared to shipping an item.
What about free shipping? After all, to get free shipping you have to buy something, so is it really free after all?Kjwah said:
It costs time. Time is money. Especially considering how many people asking for free MUD hosting will never actually do anything with it after maybe a month of finding out how hard and challenging it is to run a successful MUD.
Zeno said:
No, it's not the same thing. Shipping actually does cost money. Creating a new user on linux doesn't cost anything.
Quote
Lets say I am giving out free computers, you just have to pay for shipping and handling.. The computer's still free, even if I am making you pay for shipping fees.. Isn't this almost the same thing?
No, it's not the same thing. Shipping actually does cost money. Creating a new user on linux doesn't cost anything.
It costs time. Time is money. Especially considering how many people asking for free MUD hosting will never actually do anything with it after maybe a month of finding out how hard and challenging it is to run a successful MUD.
I already mentioned that shipping something takes time and money. It's not the same. Besides, it takes under a minute to create a user. Times is valuable, but such a short time can't be compared to shipping an item.
So free shipping is like free hosting in this way. You have to buy something to get something for free. In this case, you're buying an account or paying for someone's time to setup that account, the rest is free.
13 Oct, 2007, kiasyn wrote in the 71st comment:
If this goes further off-topic I will split it, try and keep posts on-topic please :/
14 Oct, 2007, Tyche wrote in the 72nd comment:
bump
14 Oct, 2007, David Haley wrote in the 73rd comment:
This might be a dumb question, but, err, why did this thread get bumped?
14 Oct, 2007, Conner wrote in the 74th comment:
Because Tyche really liked the thread?
14 Oct, 2007, David Haley wrote in the 75th comment:
It's true that it's a very lovable thread, but still… :stare:
20 Oct, 2007, Noplex wrote in the 76th comment:
DavidHaley said:
I grew up there, but now I'm in California (but when I graduate in March I'll be moving to NYC for my job).
Conner said:
You're in France? That's a new one on me..
I grew up there, but now I'm in California (but when I graduate in March I'll be moving to NYC for my job).
Ah, nice, then maybe we can party come March. I am finishing up my degree in Newark, NJ - its 25-30 minute train-ride outside of NYC. I can't wait to finally be done and out of school. Then I can work, make some real money, and hopefully work on some serious projects (instead of these things at school that have the potential of making money, but nobody has the time to actually do anything about it).
DavidHaley said:
Oh, the tub thingies here are about $5 too. I was talking about like the smallest size they have, the little sleeve thingies.
Conner said:
Dragona tells me that popcorn here is about $5 for the small tub, so it does sound like you've got us beat even if only slightly.
Oh, the tub thingies here are about $5 too. I was talking about like the smallest size they have, the little sleeve thingies.
That sounds about right for here to. I actually haven't been to the movies up here in northern NJ/NYC yet, but I assume the ticket prices are around $9.25 and popcorn is about $5.50.
21 Oct, 2007, Fizban wrote in the 77th comment:
I'd say because Tyche enjoys a good debate any day referring to licenses or the meaning of the word free, often combining the two to get how the word free relates to those licenses.
21 Oct, 2007, David Haley wrote in the 78th comment:
Noplex said:
Ah, nice, then maybe we can party come March. I am finishing up my degree in Newark, NJ - its 25-30 minute train-ride outside of NYC. I can't wait to finally be done and out of school.
Tell me about it… after 6 years I'm about ready to get into the real world too. :smile: Especially since graduate school isn't exactly what I was expecting. (Well, I guess I knew that coming in, in my situation, so I guess I did expect it, but, well, whatever …)
Noplex said:
Then I can work, make some real money, and hopefully work on some serious projects (instead of these things at school that have the potential of making money, but nobody has the time to actually do anything about it).
Heh. The big dream here is to go do a startup. There are a number of rather successful startups that were born here and a lot of people want to be the next Google or something. I might want to participate in starting a company, but later on and after gaining experience in the real world. I'm not sure it would be the best thing to try to start one without having been in one that was running… at least, you could learn from other people's successes and mistakes.
Noplex said:
That sounds about right for here to. I actually haven't been to the movies up here in northern NJ/NYC yet, but I assume the ticket prices are around $9.25 and popcorn is about $5.50.
Last time I was in NYC (summer 2006) movie tickets were upwards of $11.25 (they had no student discounts) and popcorn (even the smaller size) was $5ish as well.
21 Oct, 2007, Noplex wrote in the 79th comment:
DavidHaley said:
Tell me about it… after 6 years I'm about ready to get into the real world too. :smile: Especially since graduate school isn't exactly what I was expecting. (Well, I guess I knew that coming in, in my situation, so I guess I did expect it, but, well, whatever …)
I am undecided on graduate school yet. I think I might just go for an MBA instead of a Masters in Computer Science.
DavidHaley said:
Heh. The big dream here is to go do a startup. There are a number of rather successful startups that were born here and a lot of people want to be the next Google or something.
Yeah, unfortunately here its all about just getting out of school. There are a select few of us that actually want to work on something fun (and/or innovative). So at least in that aspect I'm pretty much content. I have my hands in enough projects right now (mobile phone programming on WM5, web programming projects and an all purpose java backend server).
DavidHaley said:
Last time I was in NYC (summer 2006) movie tickets were upwards of $11.25 (they had no student discounts) and popcorn (even the smaller size) was $5ish as well.
Oh, I don't think I would ever buy tickets in NYC unless I was living there. I meant here as in northern Jersey. Heh.
21 Oct, 2007, David Haley wrote in the 80th comment:
Noplex said:
I am undecided on graduate school yet. I think I might just go for an MBA instead of a Masters in Computer Science.
I guess it depends on what you want to do later on. Frankly the CSMS, at least here, isn't that different from the CSBS, except that I have added on more classes that are supposedly of a more advanced level. (On the other hand, it's entirely common for undergrads to take grad classes; there's a lot of overlap.) That said, the importance of more knowledge shouldn't be neglected; it's just that it won't be a life-changing experience.
The MBA is also very valuable but less so (career/salary-wise at least) if you plan on being a software engineer. The place I'll be working at probably wouldn't care if I had an MBA, but having an MS can be important for me (salary, growth, etc.) It would probably be helpful if you planned to start your own business too. Also, having an MBA can almost double your salary as a consultant…
Noplex said:
Yeah, unfortunately here its all about just getting out of school. There are a select few of us that actually want to work on something fun (and/or innovative).
Well I guess it's not exclusive to want to finish, and yet work on something fun too. That said, these days I don't have time for anything non-trivial beyond my own classwork. Sigh…
No, it's not the same thing. Shipping actually does cost money. Creating a new user on linux doesn't cost anything.
It costs time. Time is money. Especially considering how many people asking for free MUD hosting will never actually do anything with it after maybe a month of finding out how hard and challenging it is to run a successful MUD.