08 Apr, 2011, David Haley wrote in the 41st comment:
Votes: 0
oenone said:
People at school or work shouldn't play at all :P

You're right – students should use their downtime between classes to do nothing but study and do homework. In fact, even when they go back to their dorm rooms, they should only be allowed to access their coursework pages. :rolleyes:
08 Apr, 2011, Ssolvarain wrote in the 42nd comment:
Votes: 0
Sorry. I didn't mean a multi-client setup. Being a veteran of many different games and habitual lurker, I've ran across the extremes in many games. The 36-client setup for WoW comes to mind as one of the most awesome (and possibly one of the more depressing).

I mean more along the lines of picking 4 classes and getting your stats/skills from that. For example: I choose 3 warriors and a thief. I'd have great HP and physical prowess and be able to pick locks and the like, but lack any kind of spells since I didn't include a cleric/mage type.

Just thinking that playing to the strengths of individual play while providing the benefits that would traditionally require more connections/people would be something to consider. Not necessarily a great overall change to the game itself or how its played, just a change in how you'd interact with the community for "outside" needs.
08 Apr, 2011, sankoachaea wrote in the 43rd comment:
Votes: 0
Runter said:
I'm still wondering what all of those things Achaea does to make accounts reliable that was alluded to by Sanko actually are. If they even exist.


Keep wondering, …


Edit: by '…' I mean 'jackass'
08 Apr, 2011, Tonitrus wrote in the 44th comment:
Votes: 0
sankoachaea said:
Runter said:
I'm still wondering what all of those things Achaea does to make accounts reliable that was alluded to by Sanko actually are. If they even exist.


Keep wondering, …


Edit: by '…' I mean 'jackass'


Could you be any more lame?

Man, I wish I could get Tyche's ignore script to work.
08 Apr, 2011, Cratylus wrote in the 45th comment:
Votes: 0
everybody caught a case of shutdown fever!

I think sanko and runter just need a nice neutral pvp server in which to settle their differences.

Alternately they could needle each other here endlessly for all eternity, which I might be
inclined to frown on, but then ssolvarain would start trollin me and then DH would put ssol in
his place and then Scandum would call DH muslim and then…

Well I guess we get the idea.

Having said that, and acknowledging that grudging disrespect appears to be part of the
community's standards, I'd also like to suggest to sanko and runter that we get it already.

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
08 Apr, 2011, Runter wrote in the 46th comment:
Votes: 0
sankoachaea said:
Runter said:
I'm still wondering what all of those things Achaea does to make accounts reliable that was alluded to by Sanko actually are. If they even exist.


Keep wondering, …
Edit: by '…' I mean 'jackass'



Very classy.
08 Apr, 2011, sankoachaea wrote in the 47th comment:
Votes: 0
Cratylus said:
and acknowledging that grudging disrespect appears to be part of the
community's standards

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net

I thought this was a forum for programmers, or at least primarily MUD admins with an interest in programming. I make a point of showing respect toward faceless, anonymous members of said community until they start acting like children, or at best, ignorant teenagers with an over-developed sense of entitlement. How many jibes have you made at various members of this community, Cratylus?

I don't judge you for it. Don't begrudge me mine, especially when they stem from an attempt to keep a thread on topic.

Runter: you continuously point out your ignorance in relation to my post about Achaea's account system, like it makes any point known other than that you're ignorant (of Achaea's account system/in general.. whatever). For the record, sarcasm isn't the lowest form of it.. it's not even wit at all.
08 Apr, 2011, Runter wrote in the 48th comment:
Votes: 0
sankoachaea said:
Cratylus said:
and acknowledging that grudging disrespect appears to be part of the
community's standards

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net

I thought this was a forum for programmers, or at least primarily MUD admins with an interest in programming. I make a point of showing respect toward faceless, anonymous members of said community until they start acting like children, or at best, ignorant teenagers with an over-developed sense of entitlement. How many jibes have you made at various members of this community, Cratylus?

I don't judge you for it. Don't begrudge me mine, especially when they stem from an attempt to keep a thread on topic.

Runter: you continuously point out your ignorance in relation to my post about Achaea's account system, like it makes any point known other than that you're ignorant (of Achaea's account system/in general.. whatever). For the record, sarcasm isn't the lowest form of it.. it's not even wit at all.


I'll leave it to other readers to decide who thinks they are witty here in their snide remarks. No sarcasm there.
08 Apr, 2011, sankoachaea wrote in the 49th comment:
Votes: 0
It's not witty or snide.. in fact, I was being rather blatant and open.
08 Apr, 2011, quixadhal wrote in the 50th comment:
Votes: 0
TWSS
09 Apr, 2011, Scandum wrote in the 51st comment:
Votes: 0
It's surprisingly easy to let lame arguments get to you. The trick is to A) let it go B) smile C) go do something productive instead of wasting time on a message board.
09 Apr, 2011, Ssolvarain wrote in the 52nd comment:
Votes: 0
Scandum said:
It's surprisingly easy to let lame arguments get to you. The trick is to A) let it go B) have a scotch C) go do something productive concerning your mud


I like that a bit better.
09 Apr, 2011, Vigud wrote in the 53rd comment:
Votes: 0
Well, from my (short) experience with MudBytes' community I can only agree with Sanko that Runter does like to sound like an expert, which is fine as long as he knows what he is talking about. But it can be annoying when he talks BS about things he doesn't understand (lesson learned from the discussion thread about bad code).
09 Apr, 2011, sankoachaea wrote in the 54th comment:
Votes: 0
When I don't know something - whether it's at work, at church, on a date with my fiance, in class, or on a web forum - I don't go around sardonically demanding that other people enlighten me while underhandedly insinuating that failing to do so equates to those people lacking credibility or making false claims.

I know that at work, at church, on a date, or in class, that wouldn't fly.

If you think that the relative anonymity afforded by a 'handle' and a web forum washes over your mannerisms and the way you're received by your peers, your wrong; you're just an anonymous pompous prick.

Text-based multi user dungeons are good places to behave pretentiously or in unrealistic manners. Serious forums - if you can call this such - are good places to be real. You're being real annoying - I'm being real about it. Unless you're really 15 years old, put some real thought into what you're saying.

Edit: I don't drink.
09 Apr, 2011, Runter wrote in the 55th comment:
Votes: 0
So, it seems Sanko got upset here because I insinuated that his claim that Achaea had a lot of things going on that makes it an effective system was bogus. (I still think it's bogus, and this is the nature of challenging statements and the back and forth that ensues that should produce something closer to the truth.) So, I apologize to Sanko if he was hurt by my comments. They weren't meant to be insulting. They were meant to be challenging, because I suspect Achaea has no real solution to multiplay. But Sanko hasn't been willing to engage me other than to throw around classless insults and use platitudes to showcase some type of superiority. So I'm just going to go ahead and interject in this orgy with a few facts.

In another thread Sanko mentions Achaea's account system:
Sanko said:
Achaea, for example, already implements an internal account system (independent of IP-addresses)

It doesn't matter if you're on the same line or coming from different IPs, if more than one character registered to the same e-mail accounts are playing at one time, the server identifies them as multiplaying…


The context isn't important. He's gonna say it is, but it's not. I'm interesting in why he seems to think it's effective at catching multiplayers . (A problem many of us have discussed on these very forums for years.) I ask in good faith for clarity:
Runter said:
What deters someone from making two accounts to multiplay?


So, do I get a simple answer? Do I even get ignored? No. I get this gem.
Sanko said:
A number of things, all orthogonal to the point. This isn't a discussion of how effective Achaea's account system is –> MUDs are going to (and should) manage restriction of multi-playing regardless of the client used to play them. Twisol, and by extension, Aspect, shouldn't be overly-encumbered with a task already handled by the game.


So, this confirms that he thinks the system is effective. He even claims there are "a number of things." But for some reason he can't be bothered to talking about it, even though he brought it up, because (according to him) he thinks it's not appropriate to get off topic on a thread. Now, here's the funny thing folks. That whole thread was off topic. There's now a new thread spawned for the discussion taking place, and that's fine. That's how threads around here and other places work. They meander. People ask questions in good faith and other people either choose to answer or not to. They shouldn't get the Sanko treatment of indignant judgement upon the issue of which conversations are worth having.

After receiving that answer, I decide it's probably best to let it go, but I still want to let him know that I think his non-answer wasn't helpful at all. In fact, it was insulting. I was sarcastic (I guess sarcasm is banned on this site now. Sanko rules.) . Here's what I said:
Runter said:
Thanks for answering the question I asked.


So, Sanko doesn't like this one bit. Someone is being sarcastic. Not on his watch.
Sanko said:
It's not my job to provide answers to any random question you ask, especially when #1. you could find the answer on your own and #2. it isn't relevant to the topic. Forgive me if I don't fake appreciation for laziness and sarcasm. When I open up Ask-Sankoachaea.com, I'll be sure to log this under feedback.


Putting aside the sarcasm thing, I'm also not allowed to ask any question that I could find on my own, because asking questions is just being lazy. Another Sanko rule never before observed on this site.

Later on Sanko claims he never used Achaea as a success story and he refuses to talk about anything off the topic. Yet, dear readers, I think you can tell that what he said drove the discussion in that direction. He didn't want to respond to simple questions on how it was effective. … Other than to say there were "a lot of things" going on. Well, why can't we know just one? I don't doubt they exist in his mind, but, forgive me for being lazy, and challenging that the system is actually effective.

So Sanko continues to throw insults. I end up starting a new thread specifically for the discussion of Achaea's multiplay policy in an effort to get an answer out of him. A lot of people responded in good faith and contributed some well thought out discussion. Sanko, after the thread gains some legitimacy, decides to chime in calling me an asshole. Maybe I was being one. Maybe I am, but so far the only person resorting to name calling is Sanko. Asshole or not, that's childish.

Cratylus tries to play neutral broker and end the dispute. What does Sanko do? He insults Cratylus, and continues his insults on me. Claiming now I've acted like "teenagers with an over-developed sense of entitlement." I've barely even responded to him in kind. I figure we'll be able to drop it here. I respond above that other readers can make up their minds about who is making the snide remarks. He continues his borderline, gutter sniping alluding to "anonymous pompous pricks" and to people, again, acting like children that aren't putting thought into what they're saying.

So I'm not going to respond Sanko any more, but I thought it would be useful, before history gets rewritten here, for the readers to know what led to this. We could have another few pages of back and forth, but I'm not going to name call. I'm not going to get into this dirt. I've been on these forums since they just about opened. I've had heated discussions with just about all of you, and for the most part we've been able to have constructive debate and build reporte, but this is just something differently entirely. This feels more like one side is only interested in getting more marks on a chalk board for scoring zings. Zinging is fine and all, but I come here to have nuanced conversation about real topics relevant to this community. I.e. multiplaying. Also, I don't really have time for the back and forth flame wars require to fuel. Soz, post counts will not be fed by me today.

09 Apr, 2011, Dean wrote in the 56th comment:
Votes: 0
Me and Runter can't be the only ones interested in Sankoachae's response to the question.

I'm personally very interested from the perspective of someone who doesn't like multiplaying, therefore doesn't want it in his game, so if there's a better method of handling it than how it is done so already, I'm all ears. :wink:
09 Apr, 2011, Rarva.Riendf wrote in the 57th comment:
Votes: 0
Dean said:
Me and Runter can't be the only ones interested in Sankoachae's response to the question.

I'm personally very interested from the perspective of someone who doesn't like multiplaying, therefore doesn't want it in his game, so if there's a better method of handling it than how it is done so already, I'm all ears. :wink:

Actually I am interested (sort of), but really there is no automatic technical solution that could work for many obvious reasons that were already stated.
You can achieve it through design (make so multiplaying give absolutely zero advantage and even decrease the gains, at the cost of killing the interest of people grouping)
You can achieve it through money, but then again for some people money is nt a limit, and it is at the cost of people who has less.

But you cannot achieve it technically. It is like thinking you can prevent a crime by writing a law against it. And the only thing a law achieve is to keep honest people honest.
09 Apr, 2011, plamzi wrote in the 58th comment:
Votes: 0
Dean said:
Me and Runter can't be the only ones interested in Sankoachae's response to the question.

I'm personally very interested from the perspective of someone who doesn't like multiplaying, therefore doesn't want it in his game, so if there's a better method of handling it than how it is done so already, I'm all ears. :wink:


If your mud has a relational database, read my posts in this thread for what I'm planning to do. I believe that in my case there is a way to automate a big chunk of the monitoring and only use human judgment in a few exceptional cases that can fool any system, including one relying entirely on human judgment. But a lot of my approach relies on being able to query for cross-sections between registered email addresses + IP histories easily, so if you don't have that kind of capability, it may be onerous to implement that kind of monitoring.
09 Apr, 2011, Idealiad wrote in the 59th comment:
Votes: 0
I don't think you can divide up people into the honest and dishonest, it's not simply binary, nor is it with cheaters and non-cheaters. So if you can implement some sane, common sense and preferably automated procedures, I think that could improve the player experience. It's easy to hand wave and say it's not technically possible to prevent multiplaying, but that doesn't do anything about the very real and practical problems multiplaying creates for people playing your game.
09 Apr, 2011, Chris Bailey wrote in the 60th comment:
Votes: 0
This thread is way off topic. We are supposed to be discussing what makes Achaea's account system effectively quell multiplaying. I'm not participating much in the discussion but I am excited to hear the answer.


EDIT: Removed redundant comma.
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