I'm a bit disturbed by this in ways other than just my status as a MB administrator.

On my site, here, I distribute a copy of FUSS++ that I added Lua support into.

Whats to stop them from attacking me personally and stopping my right to distribute work that includes substantial amounts of my own work.

Nothing. It's their right to. Apparently.

Nothing. I recommend you tread carefully, and leave the pointed questions to those who aren't using the codebase :cool:

I believe that Kayle and Samson are quite possibly the very first people in Diku community to argue that DikuMud is not distributable. They may be the very first to argue that Circle, Merc, ROM, Envy and Smaug are not distributable even though they incorporate the DikuMud license and add no additional restrictions on distribution. I could very well be wrong about nobody else arguing this idea, and would gladly be disabused of the notion that they are the first if someone would link to any earlier argument along these lines.

The same "what's to stop them" argument applies to every license out there that doesn't include rather specific clauses, AFAIK.

Welcome to the legal game; if you want to play it, make sure you play it right…

The fact that yours is a derivative work that includes a Lua Implementation for one. And for two, as I've stated several times in this thread, I'll even change it's color this time.

I HAVE NOT, and WILL NOT, EVER pull an individuals rights to use the codebases without SUBSTANTIAL evidence that they're violating the license.

And since you guys still haven't pulled all copies out of your repository, then I guess this needs to go to the next step.

This type of argument doesn't hold up. The reason he's questioning this in the first place isn't because it's a possibility. A possibility you seem to want to point out exists everywhere. That's fine—But the point is they now have a history of doing it. That history does not exist every where. Indeed, this type of behavior for many people–including new users looking for a codebase to use–may be repugnant.

I have removed all codebases that Samson requested pulled.

If there are additional items to be removed, I REQUIRE the link of each item to be sent to me, either via PM or email to be removed.

I would have liked to think you wouldn't have revoked anyones right to distribute SmaugFUSS without substantial evidence that they're violating the license.

Although, I am curious as to what the next step may be.

What if I decide to post MY work onto MUDBytes. What happens then?

That's funny, because there were still copies of SmaugFUSS 1.7, 1.8, SWRFUSS 1.2, and SWFotEFUSS 1.3 in the repository before I posted that.

He said derivatives of their work may be posted here.

GO right ahead. It's a derivative work. And as I've stated, the only thing you guys aren't allowed to have in the repository here are the stock FUSS bases and AFKMud.

Glad to hear that. All copies Samson emailed me were removed before my post here.

Interestingly, I have another base that was smaug1.4a from the ftp.game.org archives, but I applied the SmaugFUSS fixes to it manually, what happens in this case?

Nothing? It's a 1.4a derivative work. The reason we post the bugfixes instead of just placing them in the codebase itself is so that people can do exactly what you've stated.

I've been following along the entire thread…

Kayle, could you simply put into the next version of SmaugFUSS that statement you put in red above? While I don't think it solves the issue of pulling rights simply due to dislikes back and forth, it would go somewhat to appease those would would be looking at using the base.

Perhaps even put in a statement that you reserve the right to allow/discontinue rights to host the stock packages on servers etc. That way it's all out in the open. (Or however you want it said of course).

After talking with Samson, we'd be fine with Koron's suggestion of a link somewhere here pointing to the files on our site. A mirror of sorts I guess. There's talk of producing a license specifically for the FUSS bases, since we've long since past the point where we're mainly just fixing up Smaug, and we believe we've crossed into the Derivative category. But nothing will appease the license Nazis because there's a "precedent." Just like there's a precedent of Tyche and KaVir always jumping on any kind of license or copyright thread, and a precedent of Tyche throwing a fit whenever anyone tries to change the "norm" for the community. (IE, the MudMagic incident that resulted in Kyndig's scorched earth policy.)

I think Kayle and Samson have the right to decide where their work is distributed and where it isnt, just like any other copyright holder does. If its their wish that these code bases not be available on MudBytes, so be it.

That said, I also support Davions actions in revoking their right to upload. Once a user has demonstrated that they are likely to upload when theyre mood is good and revoke when its bad they become an unnecessary chore. Im of the opinion that personal gripes shouldnt come between contributors and their contributions to the community, and since a lot of people find MudBytes either by referral from other MUD sites or search engine, keeping your work on MudBytes despite your personal problems with staff member(s) is still in the best interest of you and your work, IMHO. If you really think being associated with MudBytes as a whole is that bad, then feel free to revoke your stuff and leave the forums too, since you clearly cant be seen in the presence of such horrible company, apparently.

I admittedly havent read much of this thread, but from what a gather both from what people are saying and reading between the lines, people are making power plays that arent based in objectivity or a genuine regard for the community itself. If youre going to pick and choose where your contributions are distributed based solely on the names and faces behind the site (which is fine), then I certainly support the same judgmental treatment being offered in reprisal.

It all seems so petty, and it shouldnt be. Im sorry that this is the kind of recurring discussion that newcomers to MudBytes are first exposed to.

PS: I'm going under the knife tomorrow, so I may or may not reply to responses in a couple days depending on whether I have to suffer through twenty more pages of this.

100!