06 Jan, 2009, quixadhal wrote in the 22nd comment:
Scandum said:
I think what's most saddening is that there is almost no proper documentation of the history of mudding. The best site out there is probably the living internet. Might be a cool idea to interview some people who were around in the 80s and early 90s. Especially the 80s is a time period that virtually nothing is known about.
In 1985, Van Halen dissolved, taking true Rock and Roll with it. Despite several false sightings of Van Hagar, the corpse continues to rot in the ground. What else do you want to know about the 80's? :)
06 Jan, 2009, Scandum wrote in the 23rd comment:
You guys forgot about the most important recollection known to man: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRH...
07 Jan, 2009, Guest wrote in the 24th comment:
Quote
Shut up!! Christ! SharkD (talk) 23:47, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Yep. Very reasonable people running the place. Ugh.
07 Jan, 2009, Cratylus wrote in the 25th comment:
Wikipedia said:
The result was delete.
Guess I was wrong. R.I.P. Threshold article.
I'm guessing this will probably spur some folks into shoring up
their own notability bone fides. Perhaps that's a silver lining to
take comfort in.
-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
07 Jan, 2009, The_Fury wrote in the 26th comment:
While i agree with Samson that this is obviously a vendetta taking place by the now banned ex player, my opinion is who cares if individual muds have their wiki entries removed because they do not meet the wiki standards for inclusion. IMO there is nothing historical about the game until it becomes history. As long as their is a MUD entry on WP explaining what a mud is as well as some of the more influential people and codebases throughout history, then im happy.
07 Jan, 2009, Sandi wrote in the 27th comment:
quixadhal said:
In 1985, Van Halen dissolved, taking true Rock and Roll with it. Despite several false sightings of Van Hagar, the corpse continues to rot in the ground. What else do you want to know about the 80's? :)
Slash RULES!!!
Samson said:
Dr. McCoy: "He's dead Jim!"
Capt. Kirk: "No, Bones, he's not. Wikipedia says you're not a reliable source."
Capt. Kirk: "No, Bones, he's not. Wikipedia says you're not a reliable source."
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
07 Jan, 2009, quixadhal wrote in the 28th comment:
It would be nice to have what constitutes a "reliable source" clarified, as the current definition is a bit vague.
For example, 5 years ago, I would not have considered anyone's "blog" to be a reliable source of anything but trivia, however these days there are indeed well-known people who choose that format to make announcements, and that makes it as reliable as anything else that isn't printed on dead trees.
They mention having things printed by a University Press…. I wonder what would happen if a petition were made to, say, the University o..., to have a "peer-reviewed journal" created and printed (electronically) there?
Interestingly, I see BatMUD is still there. Maybe one of the tribunal who decides "reliability" reads Massively or Inside Mac Games.
For example, 5 years ago, I would not have considered anyone's "blog" to be a reliable source of anything but trivia, however these days there are indeed well-known people who choose that format to make announcements, and that makes it as reliable as anything else that isn't printed on dead trees.
They mention having things printed by a University Press…. I wonder what would happen if a petition were made to, say, the University o..., to have a "peer-reviewed journal" created and printed (electronically) there?
Interestingly, I see BatMUD is still there. Maybe one of the tribunal who decides "reliability" reads Massively or Inside Mac Games.
07 Jan, 2009, Guest wrote in the 29th comment:
Sandi said:
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
Samson said:
Dr. McCoy: "He's dead Jim!"
Capt. Kirk: "No, Bones, he's not. Wikipedia says you're not a reliable source."
Capt. Kirk: "No, Bones, he's not. Wikipedia says you're not a reliable source."
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
Yes, that stemmed from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Fred_S...
When I read over that, I simply boggled. The sig update seemed fitting :)
As far as BatMUD, I'd be willing to wager at this point that a Wikipedia admin either plays or staffs there and the entry will survive as a result of that alone. Especially given it's sourced from the very same kinds of places they claimed were unreliable when used for Threshold.
07 Jan, 2009, The_Fury wrote in the 30th comment:
It would seem that there might actually be a ship load of information out there that is actually credible and would meet the critria of WP.
http://www.brandeis.edu/pubs/jove/HTML/v...
http://www.cs.usfca.edu/~ari/curtis93mud...
http://web.mit.edu/people/sturkle/pdfsfo...
http://citeseer.comp.nus.edu.sg/cache/pa...
http://www.hitech-projects.com/euproject...
http://www.business-and-management.org/l...
https://eidr.wvu.edu/files/4668/Chandler...
http://gamestudies.org/0102/mortensen/
http://www.hivolda.no/attachments/site/g...
http://bethkolko.org/includes/pdfs/MOOsA...
http://www.richard-slater.co.uk/universi...
http://www.springerlink.com/content/m300...
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/elc/papers/bruc...
Lists actual games –> http://www.brandeis.edu/pubs/jove/HTML/v...
Lots of LPC info Crat —> http://prog.vub.ac.be/~wdmeuter/PostJava...
and this one too http://hack.org/mc/writings/lekstuga.pdf
These are just a few publicly available papers that would pass the WP test for credible sources, they are also freely available to anyone via the net, for those who have better database access than I do, there is a wealth more information out there in older publications and journals, unfortunately my university only gets access to information from most journals in the last 5 years so i cannot read anything other than the abstracts. I should also point out that Threshold does not make a single mention in any search i have conducted via google or the database trawler we use at the uni.
I should also mention that there is a lot of information out there about all the key players in the codebase market, Aber, Diku, LP etc and very little that is specific to any one game, which IMO is how it should be on WP, it is meant to be an encyclopedia and as such there should be main entries for all the major players in the history of muds and not be advertising space for every game that ever existed.
And while Threshold is a great game and has been around for a long time, it has not done anything that has warranted anyone to write about it, sure, within our circles they are someone worth showing respect to, but in the bigger picture of people who have made major contributions to the evolution of muds in an historical sense, they just don't make the grade.
http://www.brandeis.edu/pubs/jove/HTML/v...
http://www.cs.usfca.edu/~ari/curtis93mud...
http://web.mit.edu/people/sturkle/pdfsfo...
http://citeseer.comp.nus.edu.sg/cache/pa...
http://www.hitech-projects.com/euproject...
http://www.business-and-management.org/l...
https://eidr.wvu.edu/files/4668/Chandler...
http://gamestudies.org/0102/mortensen/
http://www.hivolda.no/attachments/site/g...
http://bethkolko.org/includes/pdfs/MOOsA...
http://www.richard-slater.co.uk/universi...
http://www.springerlink.com/content/m300...
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/elc/papers/bruc...
Lists actual games –> http://www.brandeis.edu/pubs/jove/HTML/v...
Lots of LPC info Crat —> http://prog.vub.ac.be/~wdmeuter/PostJava...
and this one too http://hack.org/mc/writings/lekstuga.pdf
These are just a few publicly available papers that would pass the WP test for credible sources, they are also freely available to anyone via the net, for those who have better database access than I do, there is a wealth more information out there in older publications and journals, unfortunately my university only gets access to information from most journals in the last 5 years so i cannot read anything other than the abstracts. I should also point out that Threshold does not make a single mention in any search i have conducted via google or the database trawler we use at the uni.
I should also mention that there is a lot of information out there about all the key players in the codebase market, Aber, Diku, LP etc and very little that is specific to any one game, which IMO is how it should be on WP, it is meant to be an encyclopedia and as such there should be main entries for all the major players in the history of muds and not be advertising space for every game that ever existed.
And while Threshold is a great game and has been around for a long time, it has not done anything that has warranted anyone to write about it, sure, within our circles they are someone worth showing respect to, but in the bigger picture of people who have made major contributions to the evolution of muds in an historical sense, they just don't make the grade.
08 Jan, 2009, Scandum wrote in the 31st comment:
Those are some pretty cool links, how did you go about finding them?
08 Jan, 2009, The_Fury wrote in the 32nd comment:
Scandum said:
Those are some pretty cool links, how did you go about finding them?
Most of those you should be able to find though Google Scholar, however i use metafind which is a tool available through my university library. I only posted links to papers that are publicly available, their are 100's of others that require subscriptions to databases to get access, and for that you need either deep pockets or access though a university.
This is a nice article and worth a read.
http://books.google.com.au/books?hl=en&a...
08 Jan, 2009, Scandum wrote in the 33rd comment:
The_Fury said:
Most of those you should be able to find though Google Scholar, however i use metafind which is a tool available through my university library. I only posted links to papers that are publicly available, their are 100's of others that require subscriptions to databases to get access, and for that you need either deep pockets or access though a university.
I see, I'm having a hard time finding free sources with Google Scholar because of all the subscription based clutter.
The_Fury said:
This is a nice article and worth a read.
http://books.google.com.au/books?hl=en&a...
http://books.google.com.au/books?hl=en&a...
It's written by your average female TinyMUD player, very myopic compared to Bartle's work which tends to branch out and include virtual worlds that don't self identify as muds, on the bright side she doesn't use the term MU* which just annoys me when it's used as a synonym for MUD. It's a nice resource for LambdaMOO though.
09 Jan, 2009, David Haley wrote in the 34th comment:
Scandum said:
It's written by your average female TinyMUD player
:thinking:
09 Jan, 2009, Tyche wrote in the 35th comment:
DavidHaley said:
:thinking:
Scandum said:
It's written by your average female TinyMUD player
:thinking:
I'm thinking he (Pavel) is not your average female TinyMUD player. ;-)
09 Jan, 2009, Tyche wrote in the 36th comment:
http://www.massively.com/2009/01/06/mud-...
http://tagn.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/the...
http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2009...
http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/01/05/los...
http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/01/05/wik...
http://www.iguanadons.net/Wikipedia-Stri...
http://www.zenofdesign.com/2009/01/06/wi...
http://hellforge.gameriot.com/blogs/Hell...
http://tobolds.blogspot.com/2009/01/wiki...
http://www.unwesen.de/articles/wikipedia...
http://www.topmudsites.com/forums/tavern...
http://www.q3r3.cn/post/20090107645.html
Blogs and links so far to the Threshold thing.
http://tagn.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/the...
http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2009...
http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/01/05/los...
http://www.brokentoys.org/2009/01/05/wik...
http://www.iguanadons.net/Wikipedia-Stri...
http://www.zenofdesign.com/2009/01/06/wi...
http://hellforge.gameriot.com/blogs/Hell...
http://tobolds.blogspot.com/2009/01/wiki...
http://www.unwesen.de/articles/wikipedia...
http://www.topmudsites.com/forums/tavern...
http://www.q3r3.cn/post/20090107645.html
Blogs and links so far to the Threshold thing.
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Although I will most likely embellish things for my own glorification. ;)