02 Oct, 2009, Ssolvarain wrote in the 21st comment:
Votes: 0
Swords don't have a setting.

They kill you.

I'm confused as to what you're trolling about now, Crat.
02 Oct, 2009, Cratylus wrote in the 22nd comment:
Votes: 0
Ssolvarain said:
Swords don't have a setting.

They kill you.

I'm confused as to what you're trolling about now, Crat.


This sort of thing is pretty much what I was getting at with my
previous question to you. Can you please not do this sniping
and derailing stuff? It's one thing if you were a generally
contributive guy besides. But…yknow.

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
02 Oct, 2009, Ssolvarain wrote in the 23rd comment:
Votes: 0
Cratylus said:
This sort of thing is pretty much what I was getting at with my
previous question to you. Can you please not do this sniping
and derailing stuff? It's one thing if you were a generally
contributive guy besides. But…yknow.


Stop being all butthurt. If I were sniping, I'd include links of all your snipes and derailments :)
02 Oct, 2009, David Haley wrote in the 24th comment:
Votes: 0
Ssol, your behavior is really not helpful here.
02 Oct, 2009, Ssolvarain wrote in the 25th comment:
Votes: 0
The thread ended at post #6. The thread was already derailed.

Where's the problem?
02 Oct, 2009, David Haley wrote in the 26th comment:
Votes: 0
I think people were having a discussion that was interesting to several people about how modern weaponry plays more or less nice with text-based games, room-based vs. roomless systems, normal weapons, and so forth.

This forum isn't a place for you to express your boredom. If you want to make useful contributions, I'm sure that everybody would appreciate it, but right now you are just wasting space and time on the "excuse" that somehow the thread isn't interesting to you.

Please have a little consideration for the fact that people are trying to have a useful conversation here.
02 Oct, 2009, Ssolvarain wrote in the 27th comment:
Votes: 0
Now who's making shit up :rolleyes:
02 Oct, 2009, Cratylus wrote in the 28th comment:
Votes: 0
Ssolvarain said:
Cratylus said:
This sort of thing is pretty much what I was getting at with my
previous question to you. Can you please not do this sniping
and derailing stuff? It's one thing if you were a generally
contributive guy besides. But…yknow.


Stop being all butthurt. If I were sniping, I'd include links of all your snipes and derailments :)


I found your hostility and immaturity very odd but I just figured out who you are
on TMC and it all comes together.

Not that I like your behavior, mind you, but now I understand.

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
02 Oct, 2009, Zenn wrote in the 29th comment:
Votes: 0
Ssolvarain said:
Now who's making shit up :rolleyes:


Dude.

Take it elsewhere.


At any rate, some star wars games also have energy shields (Knights of the Old Republic style) which can deflect blaster bolts, making for prolonged combat.
02 Oct, 2009, Koron wrote in the 30th comment:
Votes: 0
Cratylus said:
I'm actually a bit curious how SW muds handle lightsabers, if they do. They seem insta-sever/insta-kill weapons if they connect.

All the ones I've been on (and it has been a long time since I've been on one, so maybe things are different now) just treat them as swords that you can parry (or parry well) with. There's nothing particularly deadly about them and the only justification for this I've come up with so far is a sacrifice of "authenticity" for game balance. Certainly wouldn't be very fun to have a big badass warrior get cut down in one stroke, especially on a mud with perm death.
02 Oct, 2009, Ssolvarain wrote in the 31st comment:
Votes: 0
I think not.

I'm being accused of hostility by a pair, with nary a bit of anything approaching unpleasantness to be found on my part. Yet it's ok for other people to degrade me.

Fuck this, that and you.

I'm outta here.
02 Oct, 2009, Scandum wrote in the 32nd comment:
Votes: 0
That's what you get with cabals, everyone's shit stinks but their own.
02 Oct, 2009, David Haley wrote in the 33rd comment:
Votes: 0
Koron said:
There's nothing particularly deadly about them and the only justification for this I've come up with so far is a sacrifice of "authenticity" for game balance. Certainly wouldn't be very fun to have a big badass warrior get cut down in one stroke, especially on a mud with perm death.

I'm not sure how else you could possibly do it. If you want individual characters to be meaningful, you can't have them cut down so casually by a weapon that, without being common, isn't exceedingly rare in several SW settings. You can get around this by adding in things like personal shields or other ways to mitigate the effect of the lightsaber, but even so, this is the problem with extremely advanced weaponry against very fragile targets.

Some people get around this by using hit points to mean general stamina, suggesting that when you "die", it's because you were so tired that you couldn't dodge/block/evade the attack as you normally would. In other words, each "hit" is actually considered an expenditure of "evade points".

It's worth noting that even with swords, a proper connection of sword on several parts of the human body is easily deadly or at least incapacitating. So this isn't a problem only with high-tech weaponry; it's just that the problem is exacerbated by advanced weapons.
02 Oct, 2009, Guest wrote in the 34th comment:
Votes: 0
Ssolvarain said:
Yet it's ok for other people to degrade me.


Welcome to my world. Not very inviting, is it?
02 Oct, 2009, Tijer wrote in the 35th comment:
Votes: 0
Zeno said:
There's also a pure ASCII MUD where you build bases and stuff. Guns etc, I think the codebase was released. AssaultMUD was it?


This is an ack based mud and is in the ack repository under subservers => assaultcoding.tgz (knew it was here as it was on the old mudmagic repository that was imported here…

Tijer
02 Oct, 2009, Zenn wrote in the 36th comment:
Votes: 0
A plasma shield in star wars also deflects lightsabers for a time. (See: Droideka)

But mostly it works like a sword, yeah. With insanely larger damage. Sometimes there are lightsaber stances/blade power settings that can affect the damage rate vs. the time it takes to need to be recharged.
02 Oct, 2009, elanthis wrote in the 37th comment:
Votes: 0
The moral of the story comes down to a simple fact: realism isn't fun.

If people wanted realism, they'd go out in the streets and shoot each other. Games are games, not simulations of real-life, and modeling a game as a realistic combat simulator results in a game that is short, frustrating, and generally not fun. Modern warfare FPSes get away with it only because you don't play a single character in a game-world sense; you play a series of different characters rushing into the battle one after the other. A MUD generally tries to attach a singular persona to a character, so the only way to have totally realistic combat and not be a total drag is to add a totally unrealistic way of coming back to life quickly and repeatedly. Which – if you care about realism because of the story-telling qualities of brutal combat – is not a tenable solution, because killing people that can't actually die is a largely pointless exercise outside of the sport of it. You can't meaningfully assassinate a king if he just comes back to life, and you can't meaningfully beat your enemies into oblivion if they always bounce right back up. It's just a big sport, who can get the most kills and climb the ranking ladder the fastest, at which point you've pretty much got a slow-paced and boring text-based Unreal Tournament.

So you can't focus on realistic combat to have a fun MUD. You can still focus on combat to the exclusion of all else (like many/most PvP MUDs), but you need to focus on _fun_ combat instead of realistic combat. Which generally means that there needs to be more to it than who can type "shoot" first. Whatever excuse you use to explain why characters have HP or BP or WP or whatever you use, at the basic level, those damage tracking systems exist solely to allow combat to continue after a single mistake, so that combat changes from a split-second "who fucks up first" realistic affair into a drawn out exchange of blows.

Realistic sword combat is also a drawn out exchange, but most people get bored by it. Nobody is hitting anybody, so it's not fun to watch, and it's not fun to play. 15 seconds of "you swing but he dodged" and "he stabbed but you parried" isn't fun. 15 seconds of "you slice into his belly" and "he lobs off a chunk of your flesh" is fun to most people because it at least gives them some visual pizaz while waiting for the "and he dies!" Hacking people apart is entertaining, hitting metal sticks against each other is not. So you have to have a system of combat that allows people to hack people apart without ending combat in a single hit. So you have HP or a similar system. The realism-simulationist-fetishists make up excuses about how HP represents fatigue, they quote articles and D&D design documents stating that HP was always supposed to represent fatigue, and then their MUDs and table-top gaming sessions are still narrated with "near-misses" that cause a "bloody but non-serious wound," because it's more fun that way. Especially when the game can't rely on fast-paced twitch-gaming visually-interesting combat elements to keep the blood pumping because it's text based and the human brain takes too damn long to process text and fingers take too damn long to type out even the shortest of commands.

Text gaming is, by the very nature of its medium, forced to use more chess-like combat than something like an FPS. Even the fastest paced MUD combat system is still many times slower and less impressive than the most mediocre of FPS. The text-based game is real-time, and your time limit for making decisions in combat may seem small, but that's largely only because your response time is so much lower in text than it is with other mediums. So, like chess, your combat is a series of moves, a series of wins and losses, that culminate at some point in a final victory or final failure. It might be the world's fastest game of timed chess, and it might be the world's most intricate and complex variation of chess, but in the end it's still the same general concept.

It's almost amusing, really, because MUDs have so much more potential for realism and simulation in other areas compared to graphical games due to the lack of restrictions and requirements on art assets and pipelines. Outside of elements that really require graphics to work realistically (facial recognition in place of named players, for instance, or highly complex geometrical representations of space), and outside of combat and other super-fast time-sensitive activities, MUDs are the most realistic medium we have for gaming at this point. Otherwise, though, MUDs are the absolute worst medium we have for realism. Every medium has its pros and cons though, so it's not surprising I guess that text has some things really going for it and some things really going against it. :)
03 Oct, 2009, Omega wrote in the 38th comment:
Votes: 0
Dont' expect more posts:

Assault Mud is here on mudbytes. It is a ACKmud Derived mud.

Edited to include link to file.
http://www.mudbytes.net/index.php?a=file...

And is very fun.

Also, on this note of Modern muds: combatMud, (my mud obviously) uses guns(5 types), grenades(3 types), nukes(wipes out entire area's, affects wilderness for several hours, including changing spawns, may spawn with radiation sickness (weakened) or with super-human abilities (based on their level ofcourse), mines, etc, etc, room-to-room combat (shooting room to room, tossing grenades, firing rockets, and general AOE from things like grenades/mines/nukes/traps/and spells for the cultists…), aswell as a RTS system past tier 4 for the worldmap, including the building of buildings, and buildings that create spawns. Also buildings that attack other people, and their spawns.

Case and point, modern muds exist, hard to find the code out there, as most modern muds don't seem release(outside of the starwars series of muds), however AssaultMud is here, and is a great place to start, if your goal is a mud that focuses purely on worldmap interaction. Which is fine if that is purely your goal.

In anycase. Thats my two cents.

Cheers folks.
03 Oct, 2009, Davion wrote in the 39th comment:
Votes: 0
Darien said:
Dont' expect more posts:

Assault Mud is here on mudbytes. It is a ACKmud Derived mud.

Edited to include link to file.
http://www.mudbytes.net/index.php?a=file...

And is very fun.

Also, on this note of Modern muds: combatMud, (my mud obviously) uses guns(5 types), grenades(3 types), nukes(wipes out entire area's, affects wilderness for several hours, including changing spawns, may spawn with radiation sickness (weakened) or with super-human abilities (based on their level ofcourse), mines, etc, etc, room-to-room combat (shooting room to room, tossing grenades, firing rockets, and general AOE from things like grenades/mines/nukes/traps/and spells for the cultists…), aswell as a RTS system past tier 4 for the worldmap, including the building of buildings, and buildings that create spawns. Also buildings that attack other people, and their spawns.

Case and point, modern muds exist, hard to find the code out there, as most modern muds don't seem release(outside of the starwars series of muds), however AssaultMud is here, and is a great place to start, if your goal is a mud that focuses purely on worldmap interaction. Which is fine if that is purely your goal.

In anycase. Thats my two cents.

Cheers folks.


But… bragging about it after you retire is cruel! You should release it so others can bask in the glory of the nukes.
03 Oct, 2009, Omega wrote in the 40th comment:
Votes: 0
I've considered it, however, CombatMud uses code that I have agree'd not to release, ie, additions from LexiMud (FearItSelf's mudbase that is controlled) its something I could strip out easily enough, but, then again, I'd rather tease! Or you can always log-in to CombatMud and play it :P its online, though I am not, busy RL stuff ya know. Barely found time to login here to rant, good thing I'm on MIDs at work, or else I wouldn't have time to do this, tis a quiet evening, which is rare. In anycase, if I release CM, it'll be my last release to the mudding community, because my homebusiness is well on its way, and I just won't have time for this anymore. Gotta love developing iPhone games :P

anyways, nomore derailment :P
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