02 Dec, 2008, David Haley wrote in the 41st comment:
Votes: 0
If your ISP is copasetic with it, that's all that matters in the end of the day. It's a point worth at least mentioning in a FAQ or something, though, because it is a very legitimate question especially when a server is hosted from home.
I agree that going to the ISP was neither necessary nor helpful. :thinking:
02 Dec, 2008, ShadowsDawn wrote in the 42nd comment:
Votes: 0
Banner said:
Never said anything about a 10Mb switch. Don't know what that is, and if I did mention something I have no knowledge on and then later removed it, it would have been on my original post, and it would have said I had edited, and none of them say that. Try again.
I've said on numerous occasions that it's a home server. At any rate, Zeno's is too, hint hint.
Wait wait… you wanted to criticize Zeno for "not knowing how to run a server since usermin doesn't work" (not your exact words but it is how it came off) and you have no idea what an 10Mb switch is?
As I said I know I saw what I saw, it may have been on the site originally. I have no reason to pull that out of my rear, because as I said, that was what prompted me to go and look. I'm merely stating what caught my eye and caused me to raise an eyebrow at the whole thing.
Oh and yes, I know Zeno is hosted out of his house. I've used his hosting before, and was very thankful for it. I've since moved on from it though. I had no worries, and I have nothing against home hosted services. Only like for it to be stated in an easy to find location, as that way I do have a better idea of what I am getting. However, I would have more qualms about paying money for hosting that was done out of the home.
That seems to be wholly unnecessary, yes? The terms are usually written in such a way as to make the ISP the only really injured party in any of this as far as commercial re-use is concerned. Turning someone in for a violation of those terms for no reason when you're not even affected by it just reeks of pure hatred.
…and if we were just looking to get rid of you or whatever, none of us would be bothered trying to explain to you what you clearly aren't seeing.
Trying to explain? Where? When you jumped on me and beat me to death? Ahahahaha.
Hades_Kane said:
I think this the main issue here. Had this been included in the original ad, I doubt there would have even been so much as a reply to the thread much less all the drama.
Maybe if Michael had posted it himself.
02 Dec, 2008, David Haley wrote in the 45th comment:
Votes: 0
Err, no, you can rest assured that had anybody posted the exact same message you had, the response would have been the same. Contrary to what you seem to think, people do not hate you, Banner…
*sighs again* Lets just all agree to disagree. We all have our own perspective on this and I am sure there has been enough misunderstanding here. I am simply going to remove the donations from the page and work out another system to give users some way to gain better packages with time and experience. So lets hope this stops as is.
…and if we were just looking to get rid of you or whatever, none of us would be bothered trying to explain to you what you clearly aren't seeing.
Trying to explain? Where? When you jumped on me and beat me to death? Ahahahaha.
Trying to explain? Where? When you jumped on me and beat me to death? Ahahahaha.
[quote=Hades_Kane I think this the main issue here. Had this been included in the original ad, I doubt there would have even been so much as a reply to the thread much less all the drama.[/quote] Maybe if Michael had posted it himself.[/quote]
Jumped on you? You've never seen a real "flame war", have you? If you think this is/was one you obviously haven't. Go to mudconnect and search "Mud to Avoid", that was a flamewar, this was not.
The ToS isn't the whole story. ISPs routinely make arrangements with their users to grant exceptions to things like that and the public wouldn't be aware of it.
I'm sure that's true. Apparently we may have opportunity to know one way or another if it is true in this case.
Michael wrote:
Quote
Well, I understand your concern about my ISP's ToS, but its simply a donation.
As HK very ably put it, some folks here are very wary of "not-free" posing as "free". As Fizban rather abrasively put it, it's not that clear to all people-who-are-not-you what the difference is between a "donation" and a "fee" in this case.
Michael wrote:
Quote
If it makes everyone happy I can simply remove the donation packages and never mention them again.
I think you should conduct your business however you see fit. On the other hand, you should also expect smart and detail-oriented people to object when something that is "conditionally free" is advertised as "100% free". Probably if the advertising for your commercial enterprise had been more clear people might not have been offended by its apparent deceptiveness.
Wait wait… you wanted to criticize Zeno for "not knowing how to run a server since usermin doesn't work" (not your exact words but it is how it came off) and you have no idea what an 10Mb switch is?
Huzzah.
DavidHaley said:
Err, no, you can rest assured that had anybody posted the exact same message you had, the response would have been the same. Contrary to what you seem to think, people do not hate you, Banner…
And yet you continue to patronize me.
Cratylus said:
I think you should conduct your business however you see fit. On the other hand, you should also expect smart and detail-oriented people to object when something that is "conditionally free" is advertised as "100% free". Probably if the advertising for your commercial enterprise had been more clear people might not have been offended by its apparent deceptiveness.
I don't see how what we do is anyone else's business anyway. ALL the information you "gathered" (being the package information, IP addresses, home server setup, ect.), was ALL gathered from MY website where I put it in PLAIN VIEW for you to see. If we wanted to hide it, we'd offer free packages and then say, "oh, wait, we need a $20 donation before you can get that much ram and hdd space." Nope, its right there on the site. I'm sure all of you got your panties in a know because I typed "100% free" instead of "25% free".
Exactly. He does that to everybody. You're not special.
Banner wrote:
Quote
I'm sure all of you got your panties in a know because I typed "100% free" instead of "25% free".
My panties are fine.
-Crat
02 Dec, 2008, David Haley wrote in the 51st comment:
Votes: 0
I'm not trying to patronize you, Banner. You see, that's your problem right now: you are so defensive that everything is an attack. I'm trying to nudge you away from this impression you have that most people – or even just a few people – are out to get you. It's really not serving you any good, and in fact you're just making things worse at this point. You're obviously at least a little upset, so I'm trying to gently suggest that you might want to calm down a little bit before guessing at what our feelings toward you are. At this point, I think all I can do is assume that you are grown-up enough to make up your own mind and we'll all enjoy or deal with the consequences.
I don't see how what we do is anyone else's business anyway. ALL the information you "gathered" (being the package information, IP addresses, home server setup, ect.), was ALL gathered from MY website where I put it in PLAIN VIEW for you to see. If we wanted to hide it, we'd offer free packages and then say, "oh, wait, we need a $20 donation before you can get that much ram and hdd space." Nope, its right there on the site. I'm sure all of you got your panties in a know because I typed "100% free" instead of "25% free".
No, I do not believe the license of the sites ISP was hosted nor was the name of the ISP. Nice try at making it look like he did no actual research and only read your site to find all the info that he has. The word that people have an issue with is free, not 100%. Also here's an interesting question, while advertising a free site, why do you use a different mudhost for your own game?
That's your signature. genesismuds.com is a competing MUD host. I find that rather disturbing, it's rather like me walking into Burger King to see the employees all eating McDonalds.
I'm sure all of you got your panties in a know because I typed "100% free" instead of "25% free".
That's exactly what got our "panties in a knot". Saying 100% Free, and then requiring donations, is NOT 100% free. It's offering a free package, with better packages available for a one time fee. Especially when you say:
Banner said:
Unlike other "free" hosting services, there are no hidden fees, "hookup" or "signup" charges, or those "one time donations".
This is blatantly false advertising, because when you go to your site you see that there are packages requiring a one time donation. You may have one package available that doesn't have those donations. But you have packages that do have them. This isn't 100% free. This is, as you said, 25% free.
02 Dec, 2008, ShadowsDawn wrote in the 54th comment:
Votes: 0
oh I'll bite…
I'll get you my pretty! And your little dog too! *cackle*
Either Banner removed the comparisons page or their ISP was much less forgiving than they claimed as said page has been removed.
No, I removed it. As Michael clearly said, in case you didn't read it, we had permission. You should try reading more carefully so you understand what's going on before you errornously post something. But since none of you can afford the cash, we are offering everything for free now. Nope, we're not leaving town, nice try though.
I agree that going to the ISP was neither necessary nor helpful. :thinking: