He really DOES have a great deal if you actually take a look at his comparison page …

http://evileyehosting.net/comparison.php

I don't think anyone was debating if his server was good or not..?

I wasn't debating whether his service was good or not. I was debating the fact that he calls it free, but to get the good packages you have to make a one time donation/fee.

I couldn't even run my mud there without paying. I handle storage with MySQL.

What's astonishing to me is that if one
were to make the minimal effort to learn
to run a linux box, a basic vps completely
blows away the "non-free" services listed there.

For $20/mo (aka $240/yr) I get 768mb ram, 20g disk,
and 500g net traffic. Hell, I'm starting to
wonder if maybe that isn't exactly what these
mud hosts do…get a vps and parcel out slices
on it, charging each mud owner what they themselves
pay per month. The margins! It's genius!

I wonder if evileye….hmmmmmmmmmmmmm…….

So let's see. IP address is 216.118.133.37, which
apparently is within the netblock owned by an
outfit called "SeaSide Communications" in Nova
Scotia, Canada…well ok. I guess they're not just
pawning off bits of a vps, which makes sense, since
the server specs they list would be very expensive
in the form of a vps. Looks like maybe the evileye
server is sitting in someone's house or office.

But hang on…

OOooohoho! You know, I was *wondering* why they
kept insisting on calling their fee a "donation".

http://www.seaside.ns.ca/net_license.htm...

I guess that solves *that* mystery. The next question
is just how long evileye will be *able* to provide
paid hosting, since the very first mud admin they
piss off will be able to report them to their ISP
who'll probably not take kindly to a resale of
their service, regardless of how artfully worded it is.

I'd move along, folks.

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net

I can find cheaper/free servers with similar or better offers as well. Showing three competitors prices on your site allows you to pick which three have the highest prices if you so choose and slant the comparison greatly. Also he could very well make-up their prices as well as alter the stats of those sites packages. ie. A smart buyer looks at several sites they don't trust one site which claims to show their competitors offers as comparison.

Actually Crat, you hit the nail on the head of what I was alluding to earlier.

I actually had done all that research when he first posted on the various sites.
Mainly because at one point there was mention of it being on an Unmetered
10Mb switch as if it were a big deal. References to this have been removed, though
so I have no proof to back it up. Either then it was the first thing that caught my eye
as not being quite right, as any modern DC would have better than that, and the people
using the hosting would know what the actual uplink connection was and the type.

Not to mention it was originally configured in such a way that it did not share the IP
of the external connection, rather, it had the standard address type that you would see
on a home network, 192.168.1.*** This has ben fixed as well, and was easily noticed via
their phpsysinfo page at the time.

Those things instantly screamed home network and considering there were 'fees' involved
there was greater risk of if I ever decided to give them a try that my code could be lost due
to ISP not liking it. It only took a mere 5 minutes or less to get the info to confirm what I thought,
as I did the same things you just did. While I have nothing against hosting services from the home,
I do like it to be clearly stated, in an easy to see location, with the truth about their connection and
equipment not disguised. I've called people out before who were either uninformed or misrepresented their
connection type/home hosting. Since I work in a datacenter maintaining the networks and systems within,
I can't help but notice when things are off in those regards.

Though much as I love my job, it does suck being one of three women working in my office.

Never said anything about a 10Mb switch. Don't know what that is, and if I did mention something I have no knowledge on and then later removed it, it would have been on my original post, and it would have said I had edited, and none of them say that. Try again.

I've said on numerous occasions that it's a home server. At any rate, Zeno's is too, hint hint.

Yes, mine is a home server. And it is clearly mentioned in the FAQ on my site.

But I don't charge money for packages/etc.

banner wrote:


My concern isn't that it's a home server. My concern
is it appears to be in violation of the TOS of its ISP.
This means that, unless I'm missing something here,
the party is over if someone notifies the ISP that
money is being charged for this.

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net

I'm curious to know where the whole "+ tax" thing comes from? There are no taxes involved in services as far as I'm aware. The mention of this seems a bit weird.



The ToS isn't the whole story. ISPs routinely make arrangements with their users to grant exceptions to things like that and the public wouldn't be aware of it.

*sigh* I am really tired of seeing these posts about a personal project of mine. I own and operate EvilEyeHosting.net from my home, I would never deny that. As far as my ISP license agreement goes, I have been doing this for about 3 years, and I happen to be good friends with the network people at my ISP location. They know what I do and quite frankly, they really don't give a f*ck. Some of you are really going the extra mile just to bad mouth my project. The bottom line is, if you want to donate 10$ and get a better package then the free package, then go for it. If you just want the free package go for it as well. Just because the free hosting package has a list of what you get, doesn't necessarily mean we won't bend to help out the users. The primary reason I started this project is because I have been mudding for about 12 years and I like to encourage others to do the same. It seems to me that Cratylus has the biggest problem with what we are doing and thats fine, he's entitled to his opinion, it hasn't stopped users from signing up. That's about all I am going to say, I hate flame wars and I hate dealing with people who are arrogant. Sign up, don't sign up, we'll be around for a while.

I don't think anyone has attempted to call into question your character or you as an individual person. What people have taken issue with is how you advertise your "free" service.



No one has flamed you because you offer hosting.



No offense to Zeno, but I don't think he would be considered a "big name" and I also doubt he has any "big games" hosted on his server either. I imagine most of the "big games" out there probably aren't hunting down free offers.



I think you'll find that if you are a bit more up-front about what you are offering, you'll get a much, much different response. Many of us I would consider "refugees" from sites like TMC and TMS where commercial interests basically run the show. When we were originally talking about listing MUDs, one of the big things that seemed important to this small community was to have a differentiation between totally free, donations accepted, pay for perks, and pay to play. Many of us have been incredibly frustrated with the lack of this definition in other MUD sites, so that's become a bit of a sensitive issue for those of us that are up-front about what we are offering in our games, despite so many other MUDs taking advantage of their unsuspecting playerbase or licenses that forbid that sort of thing.

So many people here don't see the difference in a MUD Hosting service advertising "100% free hosting" yet charging for some of their services, and a MUD advertising a "100% free MUD" yet charging for some of its content. Me personally, I think ethically they're both about on the same level, but as far as practicality purposes, I see much less harm in a MUD Hosting service advertising in such a way. Why? Because when a MUD does this, more often than not I'm certain that players end up getting "sucked into" the "donating" for better advantages because the nature of a MUD is competition and systems like this mean that donating basically becomes mandatory to stay competitive, and because after hours upon hours invested into a character, it's difficult just to let that go because you find out you need to fork up money to stay competitive. With the MUD hosting, I think a quick visit to the page makes the "payment" model much more transparent, and you've invested all of 5 minutes before you are aware of what's really going on. Even if you host and then a few months down the line you realize you have to pay to get better hosting, then really, what are you out? You download your code and move in, with very few consequences I can see. It's not like you've lost a few months worth of work into a character.

So yeah, I personally see a big difference, but you've also got to understand where some people will not. A lot of people here have been burned by the "pay for perks" model either directly or ethically, so less-than-truthful advertising here will not get you far.



Like who? Conner & Dragonia are the only two I can think of in a while that has seemed to express any sort of dissatisfaction with the attitude of the forum, and there seems to be a general consensus of confusion among the rest of the forum.




Kinda like the way Cratylus and I have been known to agree with the Administration and kiss their ass at every turn? You want to talk about having conflict here… But Cratylus and I seem to do just fine, despite all of the problems each of us have in our major disagreements at various turns with certain individuals here.



Clearly you do, or you wouldn't have posted this. There's no need to pack up your toys and go home, and if we were just looking to get rid of you or whatever, none of us would be bothered trying to explain to you what you clearly aren't seeing.



I'll bite. Where's my apology for attacking someone defending you?

Another thing you might find here is many of us have gotten quite tired of the "martyr" routine. It's been done. Despite my best efforts, the internet can be a mean place, but this is genuinely one of the better spots. Again, if you are upfront about what you are offering, and drop the overly defensive attitude, you should be fine.



You think THIS was a flame war?


edited to fix quote brackets

Too late, I just email their email support with information about the license infringement. Yes, I can be a dick, bite me.

Michael wrote:


I probably am coming off as antagonistic given what I
am saying, but I can assure you I have no idea who
you are and don't *feel* antagonistic *against* you.

What I *do* feel is concern that people appear to be
paying you money to provide them service that violates
your ISP's TOS. You say it's taken care of, it's nothing
to worry about, and that may well be true.

I think, though, that it is certainly germane to a
discussion of the commercial service you provide.

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net

No one is trying to bad mouth your project. People are predominately taking issue with advertising that calls your service "100% free" when it is, in fact, not 100% free.



I think this the main issue here. Had this been included in the original ad, I doubt there would have even been so much as a reply to the thread much less all the drama.



Kudos to you, really, no sarcasm. It's good to see people try to give back.



I really think Crat could care less. I think the point in his pointing out the ISP thing is he would hate to see someone host with somebody, their ISP get wind of what is going on, and they lose all of their code. If you have arrangements with your ISP, then good, that's not a concern for prospective users to be wary of.



Again, I ask, are people really considering THIS a flame war?


edited to fix quote brackets

Yes you can.

If they don't have arrangements with their ISP, then really the -only- people you stood to harm would be the innocent users they are hosting. That was really unnecessary. You've more than made your point, and I don't think you're impressing anyone.

If it happens though, the root of the problem is EvilEyeHosting for violating the TOS. Not Fizzy.

Undoubtedly, I don't condone anyone violating their ToS, but there's a difference, to me, between trying to make a point and just being mean.

Well, I understand your concern about my ISP's ToS, but its simply a donation. I don't send emails to people telling them to donate and get a better package and I don't really care if they donate. It's simply a donation, its not a monthly fee and its not a contract. I am not "selling" my internet and I am not competing with my ISP so I don't see me breaking the ToS, and neither do they.

And as far as Fizban goes, that is just pointless and low. You are the equivalent of someone who runs to the RIAA saying someone is downloading music. I've never actually seen someone try to "rat" someone out when it comes to the internet, but I guess I've seen everything now.

Also.. there was a time I stopped hosting publicly and now I can remember why that was. Too many people question a good thing. If it makes everyone happy I can simply remove the donation packages and never mention them again.

Definition of donation:

the act or an instance of donating: as a: the making of a gift especially to a charity or public institution b: a free contribution : gift

Will you please stop referring to the one-time payment as a donation? If I get something in return it isn't a donation. The only way you can get something for a donation is I am selling a product and giving the proceeds to a donation, which is clearly not the case here as all the "donations" are doing is padding your pocket.