29 Sep, 2006, Zeno wrote in the 1st comment:
Votes: 0
Hypothetical situation (taking place in US).

You run a MUD based on a copyrighted theme such as Star Wars. You make no profit. The company that owns the rights comes to you with a cease and desist (or lawsuit, whatever).

Could you claim you're using it under fair use?
Perhaps you could claim you're educating people about the theme?
Or what if your MUD was really an educational MUD?
29 Sep, 2006, Brinson wrote in the 2nd comment:
Votes: 0
A mud does not qualify is fair use, it falls almost always under the category of fan fiction.

If you recieve a cease and desist, stop. ;)

Most authors won't try and stop you, though.

Being an educational mud MAY qualify you for fair use but its up to the judge and is far too grey an area to risk it in my opinion.
29 Sep, 2006, Zeno wrote in the 3rd comment:
Votes: 0
So writing up a paragraph about Star Wars is illegal if you don't have permission?
29 Sep, 2006, Brinson wrote in the 4th comment:
Votes: 0
About Star wars? No.

Using Star Wars characters/theme/plot without permission from the author in the creation of a seperate entity or derivitive work is.
29 Sep, 2006, Paradigm wrote in the 5th comment:
Votes: 0
Most authors do not care if you run a fan fiction based website or in this case muds, but some do. As for Star Wars… Lucas Arts is actually really good about that and they allow pretty much anything. A few months ago YouTube pulled all the StarWars parodies off the site and LucasArts told them to put them back up. I think your mud is safe.

I am not a lawyer please don't come after me if they sue you
29 Sep, 2006, Zeno wrote in the 6th comment:
Votes: 0
(Replying to Brinson)
I'm not exactly sure how it's different from a MUD. Is it the interaction? It's not being a derivitive work if you wrote the codebase yourself, right?

So it must classify under a separate entity. How exactly does it though?

I don't know a lot about legal things like this, which is why I'm asking a lot. :P
29 Sep, 2006, Paradigm wrote in the 7th comment:
Votes: 0
Zeno said:
(Replying to Brinson)
I'm not exactly sure how it's different from a MUD. Is it the interaction? It's not being a derivitive work if you wrote the codebase yourself, right?

So it must classify under a separate entity. How exactly does it though?

I don't know a lot about legal things like this, which is why I'm asking a lot. :P

It would be considered more fan fiction than anything. Some Authors will tell you you can't use their theme because they must protect it if they want to create a game of any kind down the road. This happened in the Mud community a few years ago but I can't remember which SciFi writer it was, he said that no one could run muds with his theme because it would make it so he was not able to create a game out of that theme. Lucky for us most muds fly under the radar and thus no one cares about the themes.
29 Sep, 2006, Guest wrote in the 8th comment:
Votes: 0
Quote
Hypothetical situation (taking place in US).

You run a MUD based on a copyrighted theme such as Star Wars. You make no profit. The company that owns the rights comes to you with a cease and desist (or lawsuit, whatever).

Could you claim you're using it under fair use?
Perhaps you could claim you're educating people about the theme?
Or what if your MUD was really an educational MUD?


I know about this because I was arbitrated against by the Church of Scientology, and its representative Lynn Shape, who, possibly illegally hacked the domain privacy through social engineering at my ISP, contacted me regarding several domains that she believed were in my possession, namely Sciencology.org/.com, Sciensology.org/.com. My lawyer said that basically it is impossible for them to sue for money since no remuneration would be allowable; and that it is almost impossible for them to even prove that they are a "household name" which is part of the Trademark Law which refers to the remuneration of a trademark and the prestige associated with a well known trademark. So, as long as I don't completely copy Scientology and its related symbols, wordmarks and operating procedures, I would probably be able to take an educated risk and gamble with the content on the sites. However, the organization, due to its relative fame and definite sizable court fund, could arbitrate for an eternity against me and I would be forced to eventually concede. In other words, its probably best not to walk that line, if I were the one who owned those domain names and their associated website content.

This being said, to sum up my layman understanding of the laws, as I am not an attorney,

It is possible to be arbitrated and later litigated against in this situation, depending on what happened after you started using Trademark Infringing Material like the name "Star Wars" . . .

If the organization that owns Star Wars took notice,

You would probably receive what is called a "notice letter" or, in less legal terms, a written warning / polite request. You do not have to heed anything but a court order, but sometimes its best to heed a "polite request" or "warning" if you want to remain in good favor with the other party. Sometimes, however, the "warning" or "polite request" is not backed by sufficient funds or real intentions to sue, making it a worthless piece of paper and possibly harassment or other communication-related crimes.

If you made no money, and did not slander the company or damage its profits in a quantifiable and provable way, you would probably not lose in a claim made against you regarding remuneration, though they may be able to get what is called a "Federal Injunction" which is used to force. You may appeal an injunction, but you must also heed the injunction until the original ruling is overturned. I believe you can only appeal this type of case one time for each case, I believe, but it could be up to 3 times. They can appeal overturned rulings 1 time (or up to 3 times, I dunno). It requires you to go to Federal Court, and costs thousands of dollars.

Star Wars is a registered TRADEMARK of Lucasfilm. If George Lucas cared enough to, he may be able to convince the courts to order an injunction, which would force you to do something (ie: stop serving the content, remove all Trademark infringing artwork, change your service's name, remove all references to his trademark).

Since you don't make money off public statements, it would be impossible to be sued for talking about Star Wars. Even if this forum was funded by advertisements, it seems unlikely since Star Wars is not a central theme of the website, and disclaims its content as a public messaging forum.

By the way, if you get a job because you hit it off at an interview by talking about Star Wars, this is not a valid reason to be sued.
29 Sep, 2006, Zeno wrote in the 9th comment:
Votes: 0
Paradigm said:
Zeno said:
(Replying to Brinson)
I'm not exactly sure how it's different from a MUD. Is it the interaction? It's not being a derivitive work if you wrote the codebase yourself, right?

So it must classify under a separate entity. How exactly does it though?

I don't know a lot about legal things like this, which is why I'm asking a lot. :P

It would be considered more fan fiction than anything. Some Authors will tell you you can't use their theme because they must protect it if they want to create a game of any kind down the road. This happened in the Mud community a few years ago but I can't remember which SciFi writer it was, he said that no one could run muds with his theme because it would make it so he was not able to create a game out of that theme. Lucky for us most muds fly under the radar and thus no one cares about the themes.


So then I'm confused again. Writing a paragraph up about Star Wars (fan fiction) without permission is fine, but running a MUD (which you said is fan fiction pretty much) is not?
29 Sep, 2006, Paradigm wrote in the 10th comment:
Votes: 0
Zeno said:
Paradigm said:
Zeno said:
(Replying to Brinson)
I'm not exactly sure how it's different from a MUD. Is it the interaction? It's not being a derivitive work if you wrote the codebase yourself, right?

So it must classify under a separate entity. How exactly does it though?

I don't know a lot about legal things like this, which is why I'm asking a lot. :P

It would be considered more fan fiction than anything. Some Authors will tell you you can't use their theme because they must protect it if they want to create a game of any kind down the road. This happened in the Mud community a few years ago but I can't remember which SciFi writer it was, he said that no one could run muds with his theme because it would make it so he was not able to create a game out of that theme. Lucky for us most muds fly under the radar and thus no one cares about the themes.


So then I'm confused again. Writing a paragraph up about Star Wars (fan fiction) without permission is fine, but running a MUD (which you said is fan fiction pretty much) is not?


There has been times that Fan Fictions Sites have been shut down it really depends on the Copyright/Trademark Owner and now anal they are at protecting that. Most feel that its beneficial for them to let them go but some may send you a cease and desist. They don't want to go to court any more than you do you would receive a letter long before they would tak you to court. Again muds have been for the most part left alone for the last 15-20 years i think we are safe. But, if LucasArts decided to send you a cease and desist i woudln't fight it.
29 Sep, 2006, Zeno wrote in the 11th comment:
Votes: 0
So say if I was sent a cease and desist, then.

I have the obvious option to shutdown the MUD forever.

What if I modify everything slightly so it no longer contains trademarked names etc? Like Lightsaber to Glowkatana? The content would basically stay the same, but the characters/theme/etc would change. Would that be okay to do? Or is that unethical/illegal?
29 Sep, 2006, Paradigm wrote in the 12th comment:
Votes: 0
Zeno said:
So say if I was sent a cease and desist, then.

I have the obvious option to shutdown the MUD forever.

What if I modify everything slightly so it no longer contains trademarked names etc? Like Lightsaber to Glowkatana? The content would basically stay the same, but the characters/theme/etc would change. Would that be okay to do? Or is that unethical/illegal?

Yeah if it would happen to me i wouldn't shut down (the publicity would be a huge boost) i would change it to like galactic war or something like that and change the other trademarks. You would probably have a huge influx of traffic when you go on TMC or here and tell people LucasArts is trying to shut you down :P Its Marketing Genius!
29 Sep, 2006, Zeno wrote in the 13th comment:
Votes: 0
Hmm okay.

And I assume that say a player submits an area to a MUD (MUD theme is original), but the area is Star Wars themed. The MUD (or MUD host) would still take responsibility for that area and not the author, right?
29 Sep, 2006, Paradigm wrote in the 14th comment:
Votes: 0
Zeno said:
Hmm okay.

And I assume that say a player submits an area to a MUD (MUD theme is original), but the area is Star Wars themed. The MUD (or MUD host) would still take responsibility for that area and not the author, right?

Directly the Mud Owner should take responsibility for that area that they have included but when the copyright owner comes to call its will be to the Mud Host more than likely who will have to pass it on. I had this happen to me when a user of mine was unknowingly to me downloading movies onto my server. THe MPAA sent me a DMCA i passed it along to them and told the MPAA what i had done I then removed the user and the content and the MPAA went away.
29 Sep, 2006, Zeno wrote in the 15th comment:
Votes: 0
Yeah I already figured that was the case.

Thanks, I think I understand everything a bit more. One of my projects is a MUD (sort of) that will have probably over 100 different themes, so I hope this isn't going to be risky.
29 Sep, 2006, Paradigm wrote in the 16th comment:
Votes: 0
I think you should be fine, but keep your options open as long as you listen to their Cease and Desist they won't do anything. But, we are ignored by the major media titans so no one will ever notice :)
29 Sep, 2006, Brinson wrote in the 17th comment:
Votes: 0
Most of the time you won't have a problem with copyright laws on a mud.

However, they COULD sue you and force you to stop.

A mud is generally considered fan fiction, and I doubt very seriously you'll have any problem at all.

And using the theme and characters of story is considering deriving your theme from a copyrighted works, so it is a derivitive(sp?) of their work.

Like I said, you'll probably be fine, but you really can't fight a cease and desist IF you get it, but I doubt very seriously you will, unless you were charging or drawing profit.
29 Sep, 2006, Tyche wrote in the 18th comment:
Votes: 0
Yes it would be copyright infringement. Fair use is not a defense unless it is parody. Whether or not the author allows the infringement depends on them.
29 Sep, 2006, Brinson wrote in the 19th comment:
Votes: 0
Parody, Criticism or very rare situations of educational purposes. And for the educational one you may have to hire an attorney and take it to court, which would cost you far more than worth.
29 Sep, 2006, Guest wrote in the 20th comment:
Votes: 0
It's actually TRADEMARK INFRINGEMENT and copyright VIOLATIONS.

Quote
I know about this because I was arbitrated against by the Church of Scientology, and its representative Lynn Shape, who, possibly illegally hacked the domain privacy through social engineering at my ISP, contacted me regarding several domains that she believed were in my possession, namely Sciencology.org/.com, Sciensology.org/.com. My lawyer said that basically it is impossible for them to sue for money since no remuneration would be allowable; and that it is almost impossible for them to even prove that they are a "household name" which is part of the Trademark Law which refers to the remuneration of a trademark and the prestige associated with a well known trademark. So, as long as I don't completely copy Scientology and its related symbols, wordmarks and operating procedures, I would probably be able to take an educated risk and gamble with the content on the sites. However, the organization, due to its relative fame and definite sizable court fund, could arbitrate for an eternity against me and I would be forced to eventually concede. In other words, its probably best not to walk that line, if I were the one who owned those domain names and their associated website content.

This being said, to sum up my layman understanding of the laws, as I am not an attorney,

It is possible to be arbitrated and later litigated against in this situation, depending on what happened after you started using Trademark Infringing Material like the name "Star Wars" . . .

If the organization that owns Star Wars took notice,

You would probably receive what is called a "notice letter" or, in less legal terms, a written warning / polite request. You do not have to heed anything but a court order, but sometimes its best to heed a "polite request" or "warning" if you want to remain in good favor with the other party. Sometimes, however, the "warning" or "polite request" is not backed by sufficient funds or real intentions to sue, making it a worthless piece of paper and possibly harassment or other communication-related crimes.

If you made no money, and did not slander the company or damage its profits in a quantifiable and provable way, you would probably not lose in a claim made against you regarding remuneration, though they may be able to get what is called a "Federal Injunction" which is used to force. You may appeal an injunction, but you must also heed the injunction until the original ruling is overturned. I believe you can only appeal this type of case one time for each case, I believe, but it could be up to 3 times. They can appeal overturned rulings 1 time (or up to 3 times, I dunno). It requires you to go to Federal Court, and costs thousands of dollars.

Star Wars is a registered TRADEMARK of Lucasfilm. If George Lucas cared enough to, he may be able to convince the courts to order an injunction, which would force you to do something (ie: stop serving the content, remove all Trademark infringing artwork, change your service's name, remove all references to his trademark).

Since you don't make money off public statements, it would be impossible to be sued for talking about Star Wars. Even if this forum was funded by advertisements, it seems unlikely since Star Wars is not a central theme of the website, and disclaims its content as a public messaging forum.

By the way, if you get a job because you hit it off at an interview by talking about Star Wars, this is not a valid reason to be sued.
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