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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Matthew Mihaly <<A HREF="mailto:the_logos#achaea,mudservices.com">the_logos#achaea,mudservices.com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 18:28:33 +0000 (GMT)</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu">mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
On Thu, 6 Apr 2000, Jon Lambert wrote:
> Matthew Mihaly wrote:
> >
> >From my point of view, it has nothing to do with ooc issues, but simply
> >that I, as the admin, am not going to stand for my world being used as a
> >place to spout off views I find noxious in the extreme.
> >
>
> Do you tolerate Bubba the Troll logging in and taunting Elves as "pointy-eared
> treehuggers"? Or is IC racism OK?
Oh sure, I couldn't care less about this. People are always tossing racial
insults around: You swamp-dwelling slimey Grook, or, rat-eating Rajamala.
This doesn't ACTUALLY offend any of my customers to any significant
degree, and it doesn't offend me at all.
> I would suspect that most administrators don't tolerate speech they find
> to be noxious. Yet those same administrators will allow the above expression
> in IC speech. And yet IC speech which shares a set of contemporary _hot_
> words might well trigger an administrator to act. For instance, Bubba the Troll
> would be on a slippery slope if he referred to Drow elves as "trident-chucking
> darkies" or the Priests of Bast as "the boy buggerers of Bast".
It's a judgement call. The US Supreme Court uses the same standard for
obscenity incidentally. They dno't try to define it, but feel that a "I
know it when I see it" approach is fine. In a relatively small game such
as Achaea (maxing at about 135 players simultaneously right now), it's not
hard to pull this off.
> I think the issue is definately an OOC issue (the administrators beliefs being
> properly OOC). And these are expressed in both the published game rules and
> a mud's body of common law that comes about through administrator action, or
> by rumor and pronouncement.
Yeah, I definitely agree. Ooc issue.
> In the past, I have proposed the idea where administrators could automatically
> censor and filter player speech by removing or replacing keywords making such
> communications difficult and less offensive simply by virtue of requiring players to
> express it in synonyms, symbols and phonetics (i.e. "f**K you", "u mf", or "mucker")
> Or as an option, players could choose to set up their own filters as well as
> gags. Now besides the issue that there are an infinite number of ways players
> can subvert such silly code, there was a sizable share who felt this was an
> incredibly evil idea since muds are "all about creativity and free speech".
> I would maintain most of the major issues of mud administration (and as
> expressed in this thread) really revolve around, "How can we censor xxx"?
Yeah, I am not a big fan of filters and such just because it turns into a
battle to try and outwit the filters.
> >I wouldn't. There's nothing out of role about homophobia, racism, or
> >anti-homophobia, or anti-racism. We have a number of homosexual characters
> >in Achaea, for instance, and have even dealt with the issue of same-sex
> >marriages.
>
>
> Are you saying you don't allow players to express views on a public channel
> that would be derisive of those marriages, yet do allow players to express
> affirmative views of those marriages on a public channel? And are you saying
> you allow both views in private, in-game or otherwise in-role communications?
> How exactly do you deal with the issue?
Oh, they could be derisive of the marriages. I just won't stand for things
like (pardon the following): F*CKING FAGGOTS! If players can dress up some
restrained criticism of gay players into a relatively role-related issue
(perhaps that player's God does not like homosexuality) then I don't mind.
I tend to get quite down on the teenage idiots who aren't mature enough to
dress it up though.
> My administrative view on the two issues you brought up, and a third which I'll
> bring up now, 'sexism' would be to allow players free reign in expressing any
> views on those areas in public, private, OOC and IC. My primary interest
> in censorship is in the area of IC behavior and speech that does not fit within the
> spirit and theme of the game.
Yeah, I mainly agree with you.
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<li><strong><A NAME="00102" HREF="msg00102.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Par Winzell <zell@alyx.com></li></ul>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00078" HREF="msg00078.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "Jon Lambert" <jlsysinc@ix.netcom.com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00063" HREF="msg00063.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong>,
adam <a href="mailto:adam@treyarch.com">adam@treyarch.com</a>, Wed 05 Apr 2000, 18:45 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00076" HREF="msg00076.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:the_logos@achaea.mudservices.com">the_logos@achaea.mudservices.com</a>, Fri 07 Apr 2000, 01:29 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00078" HREF="msg00078.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong>,
Jon Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc@ix.netcom.com">jlsysinc@ix.netcom.com</a>, Fri 07 Apr 2000, 15:19 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00082" HREF="msg00082.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong>,
Rasdan <a href="mailto:rasdan@home.com">rasdan@home.com</a>, Fri 07 Apr 2000, 16:53 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00085" HREF="msg00085.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:the_logos@achaea.mudservices.com">the_logos@achaea.mudservices.com</a>, Fri 07 Apr 2000, 20:37 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00102" HREF="msg00102.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Trouble Makers or Regular Citizens</A></strong>,
Par Winzell <a href="mailto:zell@alyx.com">zell@alyx.com</a>, Sun 09 Apr 2000, 04:43 GMT
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