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<H1>Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "Jon A. Lambert" <<A HREF="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:26:01 -0400</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu">mud-dev-admin#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
From: Sellers, Michael <MSellers#maxis,com>
>Jon Lambert wrote:
>> Is it theoretically possible that there are many more immature
>> anti-PKers than immature pro-PKers?
>> Is the inability to deal with or handle harassment, violence, or offensive
>> behavior without recourse to authority a sign of immaturity or stunted
>> emotional development?
>
>Typically, lashing out at others without provocation or merely to get a
>thrill at someone else's expense or misery is seen as self-centered and
>self-absorbed, and thus as immature.
You might be assuming that all harassment, violence and offensive
behavior belong to the category of "senseless". I acknowledge that
there is a subset of players who will commit the above for pleasure
and perhaps some are IRL morally repugnant.
However there are many other possible motivations for performing
a non-consential PvP action against another character.
Violence, harassment and offensive behavior can be justifiable and
sensible in many situations. And not just in an RP context.
> Wanting to be able to get some
>entertainment *without* being harassed by others isn't (who's more likely to
>be seen as obnoxious and immature -- the guy in line at Disneyland who keeps
>smacking another person in the back of the head for kicks, or the person who
>tries to get the smacker tossed out of the park?). So right off the bat,
>PKing behavior puts the PKer at sort of a moral disadvantage, no matter what
>the actual maturity levels involved are.
The person being smacked in the head has chosen one of many possible
options. Appeal to authority. I submit that reflexive appeal to authority is
as emotionally immature as reflexive violence. In fact, I believe it is moreso.
>A lot of this is context-dependant of course. I love a good paintball game
>(arguably the closest you're going to come to consensual PKing in this
>life!), and sometimes even a good game of Quake. But in situations like
>this, everyone going into it knows that the "harassment" of being smacked by
>somebody else *is* the game.
Nod. I just posted on some finer grain distinctions reference Quake of all
things. :)
>In a MUD, a lot of the appeal for many/most players is the social nature of
>the entertainment. Some MUDs carry this so far as to eliminate PKing as
>part of the game system (but most of those in this discussion seem to have
>discarded that possibility -- I certainly have). Thus, there is some
>expectation of not being used as a punching bag for someone else; where's
>the entertainment in that?
This is important! Note that most often emotionally-charged entertainment-
draining negative mud experiences occur because of non-consential PvP
social actions. Thus my earlier comment about the emotionally immature
non-PKers are perhaps more numerous than PKers. The presence or
absence of game-mechanics which enable PvP game actions might have
no bearing on the enjoyability of the mud. The more emotionally immature
your non-PK audience is, the more frequent "appeals to authority". I suspect
"appeals to authority" are may well be less frequent on games that allow PvP.
>The delicate balance that a lot of mud-designers want to reach is that where
>the entertainment value of the potential danger of being PK'ed exists,
>without allowing PKing to take over the game and swamp any other sources of
>enjoyment or entertainment. PKing should be possible, but not without risk,
>cost, or recourse. And other forms of competitive behavior should be
>possible too. IMHO.
Sure...Bartles clubs/hearts relationships. I posit that weaning one's hearts
from the teat of administrative nannies may be more effective in producing
an enjoyable game than expending energy on the perceived club problem.
A game with weak hearts is far less enjoyable than game with strong hearts.
OK. Enough punning around. :)
--
J. Lambert
_______________________________________________
MUD-Dev maillist - MUD-Dev#kanga,nu
<A HREF="http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev">http://www.kanga.nu/lists/listinfo/mud-dev</A>
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<li><strong><A NAME="00293" HREF="msg00293.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Matthew Mihaly <diablo#best,com></li></ul>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00311" HREF="msg00311.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>,
Solmyr of the Azure Star <a href="mailto:solmyr#kolumbus,fi">solmyr#kolumbus,fi</a>, Tue 14 Sep 1999, 23:16 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00265" HREF="msg00265.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>,
Sellers, Michael <a href="mailto:MSellers#maxis,com">MSellers#maxis,com</a>, Sat 11 Sep 1999, 00:35 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00268" HREF="msg00268.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>,
Solmyr of the Azure Star <a href="mailto:solmyr#kolumbus,fi">solmyr#kolumbus,fi</a>, Sat 11 Sep 1999, 02:29 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00271" HREF="msg00271.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Mon 13 Sep 1999, 17:51 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00275" HREF="msg00275.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Mon 13 Sep 1999, 17:55 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00293" HREF="msg00293.html">Re: Re[2]: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Mon 13 Sep 1999, 22:22 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00277" HREF="msg00277.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>,
Mik Clarke <a href="mailto:mikclrk#ibm,net">mikclrk#ibm,net</a>, Mon 13 Sep 1999, 17:56 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00299" HREF="msg00299.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>,
Matthew Mihaly <a href="mailto:diablo#best,com">diablo#best,com</a>, Tue 14 Sep 1999, 01:16 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00300" HREF="msg00300.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The Relationship between pkers and monster AI?</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:adam#angel,com">adam#angel,com</a>, Tue 14 Sep 1999, 01:30 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
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