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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when.</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: "'<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>'" <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when. </LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "Koster, Raph" <<A HREF="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 09:58:14 -0600</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andy Cink [<A HREF="mailto:ranthor#earthlink,net">mailto:ranthor#earthlink,net</A>]
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 5:52 PM
> To: mud-dev#kanga,nu
> Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when.
>
>
> At 09:50 AM 1/14/99 -0600, Koster, Raph wrote:
> >You made a lot of interesting points, but I've got to
> seriously quibble
> >with this notion:
> >
> >> If they want to start over, let them make a new
> >> character)
> >
> >I have been playing the same "character" on muds and in
> standalone RPGs
> >for fifteen YEARS now. Virtually everyone I know has done the same
> >thing. Character persistence and identity is not something
> to mess with.
> >If in order to obtain the full depth from the game, you are
> REQUIRED to
> >abandon a previous sense of identity, many will not make the leap.
>
> Well, I have to admit, I think I underestimated just how much a
> person may want to hang on to their character. All the same, though,
> don't many of these people have a certain type of character in mind?
> For example, let's say I have a character I like to play
> named Ranthor.
> Ranthor is always an elven ranger. Assuming I like Ranthor and I play
> Ranthor on every mud I possibly can, doesn't it seem inconsistent that
> I would want to jump ladders, and become Ranthor the cleric? Not that
> I couldn't, but wouldn't it be inconsistent with the character I'm
> currently playing?
Sure. For example, I tend to always play Dusty, a bard, and have been
doing so for years now. (Interestingly, she used to be a thief, back in
the mid-80s or so, and was male, and was named Rusty instead--the
"character" was largely the smae however). But Dusty in different games,
based on the class restraints, has taken different forms. On Worlds of
Carnage she was a ranger who used a lot of emotes, because there were no
bardic skills. On Legend I made a point of coding in bardic skills so
she could be what she was supposed to be. On UO, Dusty is still a bard,
but she's also a tailor because it was a good way to make money. Now,
changing to cleric isn't likely, but I can easily see Dusty acquiring
some clerical skills, *as long as she doesn't have to surrender being a
bard*. Hence the advantage to having "side ladders" or the ability to
pick up secondary skills. I can try new things without actually
surrendering the core identity.
> Let's pretend I was a 45 year old nuclear physicist, and I decided I
> was bored with my job, and wanted to go into genetics. I'm getting
> rather old, but I've still got time enough to do it. What carryover
> value will my career in nuclear physics have to biology? Virtually
> none, I would really be better off (in a mudding world, anyways)
> to just "start over" as a biologist instead. If you really wanted to
> make your character into a biologist, would there be a significant
> difference in loss between "jumping ladders" and starting over? I
> guess it depends on the design of the game system.
In a case this drastic (like, say, if I wanted to change Dusty from a
bard into a necromancer) the difference would be mostly psychological.
The question of whether I want to invest substantial amounts of effort
into creating another alter ego, or whether I am more comfortable
remaining with the persona I have established over so many years. One
handy way to define mules is, are they characters in which you feel
invested?
> In a AD&D like system (which still is at the roots of a great many
> muds out there today), there's not a significant difference between
> starting a new character, and returning an old character to level
> 1 in a new class. (There are some differences, and you do pick up
> your old class abilities at a future point, but in terms of stats,
> there is little change in values. (if any, at all) In a more detailed
> system, perhaps a person could change ladders in a minor sort of way,
> and carry over part of their old class skills to their new class.
> (Maybe a ranger becomes a druid, and some of their nature oriented
> skills remain intact, or whatnot)
Right--and in a classless system, or say an atrophy based system, the
changeover could easily be gradual, and you could be "climbing" two
ladders at once, or whatever.
[snip interesting analysis of character interdependence]
-Raph
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when.</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00185" HREF="msg00185.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when.</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Fri 15 Jan 1999, 04:43 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00182" HREF="msg00182.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when.</A></strong>,
Matt Wallace <a href="mailto:matt#ender,com">matt#ender,com</a>, Fri 15 Jan 1999, 04:29 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00202" HREF="msg00202.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when.</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Sat 16 Jan 1999, 03:53 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00189" HREF="msg00189.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when.</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Fri 15 Jan 1999, 15:54 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00190" HREF="msg00190.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when.</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Fri 15 Jan 1999, 16:03 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00191" HREF="msg00191.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when.</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Fri 15 Jan 1999, 16:11 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00217" HREF="msg00217.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when.</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:adam#angel,com">adam#angel,com</a>, Mon 18 Jan 1999, 19:58 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00232" HREF="msg00232.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Levels versus Skills, who uses them and when.</A></strong>,
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Wed 20 Jan 1999, 21:05 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00240" HREF="msg00240.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: META: List peerage and behaviour</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Thu 21 Jan 1999, 03:49 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
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