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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud (was Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals)</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud (was Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals) </LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Darrin Hyrup <<A HREF="mailto:shades#mythicgames,com">shades#mythicgames,com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:42:11 -0400</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
At 09:18 PM 10/22/98 -0700, you wrote:
>On Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:45:34 -0400
>Darrin Hyrup<shades#mythicgames,com> wrote:
>
>> IMO, one of the main sufferings of softcode heavy muds is that they
>> use the internal language for too much. It slows down the server
>> and takes up a lot of CPU, cutting down the number of users one can
>> support and adding delays/lag.
>
>This is a myth originated by partially competant authors and users of
>softcode servers. It is a very long way from the truth. Go have a
>look at properly (ie efficiently) constructed and written softcode
>based MUDs (ColdX and BatMUD are good starters). Also look at the
>(very few) stats available from Marcus Ranum
It depends on what you're comparing, where, and how you're comparing it.
> Note: Some statistics for ColdX were posted to this list quite some
>time back by either Brandon Gillespie or Miro. There are also a few
>quoted messages from Marcus in the archives.
>
>Want the truth? Well written softcode servers are entirely capable of
>outperforming moderately well written hardcoded servers.
Hmm... I disagree. Take, for example, Chris Grey's posts about the
efficiency of his mud language. Its the fastest I've seen, and its still
12x slower than native code.
Now, that's not a problem when you only use the softcode for things that
not used so much, or when there is a small player base. But when you code
your event system, I/O, and most all significant interfaces with the
softcode, and you have more than a handful of users on the system, you're
going to see some CPU impact vs hardcode. I'm used to systems where the
operating goal is to support 1000+ simultaneous users per server without
significant application induced delay. I hope you're not trying to tell me
that a well written heavy softcode mud will outperform a well written
hardcode mud with 1000+ simultaneous users.
Softcode is nice because it allows a great deal of flexibility, with little
CPU impact, but I still maintain that it should not be used for the
low-level coding, nor for heavily trafficked aspects of the system. An
intelligent combination of the two would be best.
>> The plug-in solution allows the mud programmer a choice in how they
>> wish to set their system up. If they wish, they can code more in
>> the internal language, or they can use existing mud-code, or use
>> pre-compiled plugins (or create their own) for speed. That way
>> neither flexibility nor efficiency are sacrificed, and the server
>> remains as simple and slim as possible.
>
>Such modular systems require what is essence is a message passing
>system for the communication between modules. It can be difficult
>(witness the Mach micro-kernel) to ensure that the message passing
>overhead does not become a significant fraction of the total
>processing effort. This will be especially difficult as the number of
>boundary crossings (inter-module) for a modular plug0in-style server
>will be difficult to keep low.
Oh, no doubt. Seems like a great design challenge to me.
Best,
Darrin
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<li><strong><A NAME="00412" HREF="msg00412.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud (was Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals)</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Jon Leonard <jleonard#divcom,slimy.com></li></ul>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00373" HREF="msg00373.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud (was Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals)</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Darrin Hyrup <shades#mythicgames,com></LI></UL></LI>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00387" HREF="msg00387.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud (was Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals)</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> J C Lawrence <claw#kanga,nu></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud (was Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals)</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00372" HREF="msg00372.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud (was Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals)</A></strong>,
Felix A. Croes <a href="mailto:felix#dworkin,nl">felix#dworkin,nl</a>, Fri 23 Oct 1998, 01:31 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00373" HREF="msg00373.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud (was Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals)</A></strong>,
Darrin Hyrup <a href="mailto:shades#mythicgames,com">shades#mythicgames,com</a>, Fri 23 Oct 1998, 02:32 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00387" HREF="msg00387.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud (was Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals)</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#kanga,nu">claw#kanga,nu</a>, Fri 23 Oct 1998, 04:18 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00394" HREF="msg00394.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud (was Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals)</A></strong>,
Petri Virkkula <a href="mailto:pvirkkul#iki,fi">pvirkkul#iki,fi</a>, Fri 23 Oct 1998, 12:37 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00397" HREF="msg00397.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud (was Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals)</A></strong>,
Darrin Hyrup <a href="mailto:shades#mythicgames,com">shades#mythicgames,com</a>, Fri 23 Oct 1998, 14:51 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00412" HREF="msg00412.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud (was Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals)</A></strong>,
Jon Leonard <a href="mailto:jleonard#divcom,slimy.com">jleonard#divcom,slimy.com</a>, Fri 23 Oct 1998, 20:18 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00375" HREF="msg00375.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud (was Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals)</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Fri 23 Oct 1998, 02:52 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00380" HREF="msg00380.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud (was Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals)</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#kanga,nu">claw#kanga,nu</a>, Fri 23 Oct 1998, 03:41 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00388" HREF="msg00388.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud (was Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals)</A></strong>,
Niklas Elmqvist <a href="mailto:d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se">d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se</a>, Fri 23 Oct 1998, 07:35 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
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