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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: lurker emerges</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: lurker emerges</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Vadim Tkachenko <<A HREF="mailto:vt#freehold,crocodile.org">vt#freehold,crocodile.org</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 22:41:45 -0500</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
T. Alexander Popiel wrote:
>
> In message: <<A HREF="msg00611.html">35CE83C9.62363952#freehold,crocodile.org</A>>
> Vadim Tkachenko <vt#freehold,crocodile.org> writes:
> >
> Hmm. Okay, definitions are always good. :-) They promote
> communication, as opposed to vociferous noise.
:-)
> My definitions of blocking and non-blocking I/O are as follows:
Preserved for clarity
> Blocking I/O: you make a library/system call requesting an I/O
> operation of a given size. The call does not return until the
> entire operation completes for the entire size requested,
> regardless of delays incurred. Under some implementations,
> external (and only external) sources may interrupt the call.
> Under no circumstances is your program able to do other work
> while waiting for the I/O to complete.
>
> Non-blocking I/O: you make a library/system call requesting
> an I/O operation of a given size. The call always returns
> 'immediately' (after minimal processing of the request,
> responding with whatever data is already on hand), with an
> indication of how much I/O was actually performed. In some
> implementations (UNIX sockets), no further processing is done
> without additional request. In other implementations (Amiga,
> apparently, and some of the old mainframes), when the remainder
> of the requested I/O is completed, the calling program is
> informed. In both cases, a _separate_ library/system call is
> available to wait until more I/O is possible or I/O completes
> (depending on flavor).
Okay, now I see that I meant the same definitions, although have a
different viewpoint.
For last 2 years I'm thinking in Java, before that I'd been thinking in
C++ for 6 years, 2 of which were preemptive and multithreaded, before
that, it was Windows.
Now, I agree that UNIX may not (I'm not really strong in C++ in UNIX)
and Java does not have asynchronous I/O as you describe it. However, I
was doing the stuff mostly top-to-the-bottom and don't really see a
problem here. Let me draft it (I guess, it's pretty obvious):
ACT is the Asynchronous Completion Token (Design patterns...), has
read_count field and a semaphore.
ACT asyncread( buffer, how_much_do_I_want, boolean all_async );
OK, so what I have is some read performed at once (no sense in async
read if I know the absolute minimum I want), and then I know how much
did I read - the ACT has it. Then, I can go out and do my stuff, and
when I'm ready I may go out and wait for the completion semaphore (let
me emphasise, _event_ semaphore).
So, on the API level - what's the difference between the _library_ call
and the simple piece of code I'm talking about? Agreed, the former may
be _much_ more effective, but if you're going to production, you need
the _scalable_ solution anyway, and if it really bothers you, go to the
platform which does have the stuff you mentioned and make it native, in
Java case.
> The most important distinction in my mind is the ability (or
> lack thereof) to separate the request and the wait for request
> completion.
Nah, the Asynchronous Completion Token is a solution in this case.
For those who still remember what is a Jukebox: guys, I'm terribly sorry
- it's in the transition from 2.0 to 3.0 right now and I'm really
ashamed to give it away as it is - it's patchy and messy, but for those
interested - I can send you the complete CVS repository today. A while
ago, the copyright issues were holding me, but not any more.
Reading the MUD-Dev too much, remember - there was a thread about what
happens to those who start reading it...
> - Alex (who seems to have spawned quite the tempest)
--
Still alive and smile stays on,
Vadim Tkachenko <vt#freehold,crocodile.org>
--
UNIX _is_ user friendly, he's just very picky about who his friends are
</PRE>
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<li><strong><A NAME="00654" HREF="msg00654.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: lurker emerges</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Vadim Tkachenko <vt#freehold,crocodile.org></li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00652" HREF="msg00652.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: lurker emerges</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> "T. Alexander Popiel" <popiel#snugharbor,com></li></ul>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00632" HREF="msg00632.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: lurker emerges</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "T. Alexander Popiel" <popiel#snugharbor,com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: lurker emerges</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01053" HREF="msg01053.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: lurker emerges</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Thu 17 Sep 1998, 00:26 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00610" HREF="msg00610.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: lurker emerges</A></strong>,
T. Alexander Popiel <a href="mailto:popiel#snugharbor,com">popiel#snugharbor,com</a>, Mon 10 Aug 1998, 05:05 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00611" HREF="msg00611.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: lurker emerges</A></strong>,
Vadim Tkachenko <a href="mailto:vt#freehold,crocodile.org">vt#freehold,crocodile.org</a>, Mon 10 Aug 1998, 05:23 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00632" HREF="msg00632.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: lurker emerges</A></strong>,
T. Alexander Popiel <a href="mailto:popiel#snugharbor,com">popiel#snugharbor,com</a>, Mon 10 Aug 1998, 15:29 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00649" HREF="msg00649.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: lurker emerges</A></strong>,
Vadim Tkachenko <a href="mailto:vt#freehold,crocodile.org">vt#freehold,crocodile.org</a>, Tue 11 Aug 1998, 03:41 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00652" HREF="msg00652.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: lurker emerges</A></strong>,
T. Alexander Popiel <a href="mailto:popiel#snugharbor,com">popiel#snugharbor,com</a>, Tue 11 Aug 1998, 04:45 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00653" HREF="msg00653.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: lurker emerges</A></strong>,
Vadim Tkachenko <a href="mailto:vt#freehold,crocodile.org">vt#freehold,crocodile.org</a>, Tue 11 Aug 1998, 05:39 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00658" HREF="msg00658.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: lurker emerges</A></strong>,
T. Alexander Popiel <a href="mailto:popiel#snugharbor,com">popiel#snugharbor,com</a>, Tue 11 Aug 1998, 15:05 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00676" HREF="msg00676.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: lurker emerges</A></strong>,
Vadim Tkachenko <a href="mailto:vt#freehold,crocodile.org">vt#freehold,crocodile.org</a>, Wed 12 Aug 1998, 04:33 GMT
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